Where do people stand on these quotes?

Our country was formed by people of vision. It is the strongest country that has ever existed in the history of mankind. Someone might argue those two statements, but when the chips are down, America responds around the world. America is where most people that are downtrodden and so forth want to come to. There is a reason for that. Much of it is because of what our original founding fathers and, of course, those that followed them made America because of their foresight and so forth. Here are some of the quotes by Thomas Jefferson that, in my view must be brought back to our way of governing (many which will be said to be passe here and antiquated, of course).

This is not anti-progressive or anti-democratic or anti-liberal. This is what our country was formulated on and this, in my considered opinion, is what our country needs to strive to get back to.

Select Thomas Jefferson Quotations:
Don't talk about what you have done or what you are going to do.
Thomas Jefferson

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.
Thomas Jefferson

The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.
Thomas Jefferson

When we get piled upon one another in large cities, as in Europe, we shall become as corrupt as Europe.
Thomas Jefferson

The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.
Thomas Jefferson

I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.
Thomas Jefferson


I consider these attributed quotes with critical thought

...as anyone should with anything.

Setting aside the supposed context of the quotes.

I see:

1)A general admonishment to get to work. Applicable in any place and hypocritical for any "thinker." A bland generality.

2)A failure to consider that government can check the power of multi/trans-state actors.

3)What part of "Thou Shalt Not Kill" don't you get?

4)As if corruption didn't exist in colonial times.

5) Again, assumes a certain type of government -- really does anybody have a nuke or two lying around to stop the big bad powerful gummit?

6) "labors of other people" saith the slave holder.

There are inspirations and gems in poetry and generalities, but it's better to be specific while governing.


Good thinking, good response

But, you DO know that these kinds of "quotes" are governing the big "change-around" in our nations' political leanings today, right?

Please do not "kill the messenger" here with this. These kinds of quotes are going around BIG TIME to the repubs and independants and are inspiring them to no end. Emails on this kind of stuff is rampant.

That is why I presented it and asked the question.\

I'm quite aware of the opposition

Their failure of critical thought and use of sloganeering is nothing new.

No GOPers were marching with posters reading "Water the tree of liberty with the blood of tyrants" when Prez Bush the Junior was shredding the constitution.

Hypocrites are often aware of their hypocrisy. They just don't care. Refuting it to their face is less important than refuting it to the "moveable middle"



I apologize for not having a note in my original post (which I should have done) that was not me saying it but was what the opposition is saying and something I picked up from somewhere.

I'm such a terrible poster on stuff like this here. I'll try to do better.

We're in agreement on this, my man.

apology unnecessary

It was fine. You just presented the quotes for discussion. There's nothing wrong with that. You don't have to keep apologizing for not making it 150% clear that you don't agree with ol' TJ.

I am happy now

Just worried me to death that you might be disappointed in my discussion and apology. Now, I can sleep good tonight. :)

They don't speak to me

Fancy words about freedom and tyranny coming from a white privileged slave owner don't carry much weight with me.

The first quotation is okay. My father used to say that.

On the matter of the second amendment. I'm ready and armed. With teabaggers like D'Annunzio declaring it's time for violent revolution, I'm going to be prepared to defend our country against insurrection.

Too bad Jefferson didn't say something about morons with machine guns.

It is more than that, James

I know what you are saying is true to the bone and there are folks (albeit a minority in America) that also know where you are coming from.

I offered that up here on BlueNC because I know first hand that this is the conservative initiative and that here is where they are going. We can be in denial about how the political pendelum is swinging in our country right now and we can reject the fact that the "independants" and "unsure" voters and so forth are going right.....but, we have to face facts, my friend.

Those quotes say a lot. They say a lot about what our opposition is hanging on to and, actually, lead with.

If we just say we disagree with our opposition and do nothing about it, we lose. Obama won on a HUGE wave of "change" and regardless what the repubs said against it, this was what put him in office after such a horrendous 8 years under Bush. It kind of looks like the repugs are turning the tables on us and making just so many voters in the U.S. believe that Obama and his admin has failed so we must go back to repug rule. You and I know better, but, we are not the important element in this discussion.

Couple of things, Foxy

While I deeply admire TJ and his beliefs about personal liberty, it's a mistake to say our country was "founded" on those beliefs. He penned the Declaration of Independence, and successfully pushed for a Bill of Rights, but the Constitution itself was written by Federalists, and Jefferson was (mostly) out of the picture in its construction.

All the enumerated powers and balance of powers of our newly-formed government were created (and defended) by Federalists, and I have a feeling our country would be vastly different today if Thomas Jefferson had been the architect of our government. I'm not saying it would have been "bad", but we probably wouldn't be the "the strongest country that has ever existed in the history of mankind", because many of the things that led to that strength went against Jefferson's beliefs.

That being said, without Thomas Jefferson's influence, our country would never have achieved greatness, of that I am sure.

I know all of that, Scharrison

You and I are of the same thought on this. I did not post what I posted so as to say I believe it all or that I suddenly have lost "religion" on progressive philosophy. I posted that so that we, the opposition, knows where the right is coming from and what they're using to "rally their troops" with TJ's quotes and such.

Hey, read them. Just how many of we lib/progressive folks reject much/some of what is said? Apply today?..nah. Mean much?..nah. But, to the right, it is their cry to fight. I see it every day. Disagree with points said and I will agree with you. Disagree it is not something we must deal with, then I will call you naive.

My post had more to do with this statement:

This is what our country was formulated on and this, in my considered opinion, is what our country needs to strive to get back to.

That's not a warning of Republican strategy, it's a love note addressed to Thomas Jefferson. Which is fine, and I won't make fun of you for it. Okay, I will make fun of you:

"Foxtrot is in love with TJ, and he wants to dig up his corpse and hug it closely."


Boy, I messed this up big time

Hopefully you guys know what I was presenting here. I sure did not put this in the best way.

Looking back on it, looks like I am saying this all myself. My bride will be proud of me :)

It's all good. An interesting discussion

The Baggers have a view of history that they invoke when it suits their needs. We need to be aware of it.

If Jefferson came face to face with Sarah Palin today, he'd laugh his ass off at the dimwit.

I had this idea (faulty as it may have been)

We, as a party, are losing ground these days and I just had an idea that I would post stuff here on BlueNC from what I pick up (from dubious sources, of course) that are being said and that are being "accepted" by our opposition that is part of why our causes and beliefs are being discredited and made to be insignificant.

Yes, it was an interesting discussion, I think, but I entered it wrong, sorry 'bout that. We cannot just disregard the spin that is put on so much of what progressives believe in and we cannot disregard why we are losing ground. I thought it would be helpful and interesting to get thoughts on things of that nature here, but, seems it just does not wash. I just posted a "Bringing Back Our Economy" thread in that light, but seems that since I screwed up the previous effort I made, it will not get much discussion.

Guess I will not do this, then. Thanks for seeing what I was doing and understanding.

Interesting thing about Jefferson...

....he was in Europe during the Constitutional convention.


The measure of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little. - FDR

Oh, this is fun!

1. Amen. Hard to believe TJ was a politician, isn't it?

2. Amen. Hard to believe he founded what is now the Democratic Party, isn't it?

3. This one makes me cringe. But we should cut ol' TJ some slack, considering the times in which he lived, and the history he knew. There'd never been a Velvet Revolution in all of human history, when TJ wrote that.

4. Humorous. TJ was an enthusiastic agrarian. Here's a longer quote from TJ, expressing the same sentiment in even more shocking terms: (call this 4.1) "The political economists of Europe have established it as a principle, that every state should endeavour to manufacturer for itself; and this principle, like many others, we transfer to America. ... But we have an immensity of land courting the industry of the husbandman. Is it best then that all our citizens should be employed in its improvement, or that one half should be called off from that to exercise manufacturers and handicraft arts for the other? ... Corruption of morals in the mass of cultivators is a phenomenon of which no age nor nation has furnished an example. It is the mark sent on those who, not looking up to heaven, to their own toil and industry, as does the husbandman, for their subsistence, depend for it on casualties and caprice of customers. Dependence begets subservience and venality, suffocates the germ of virtue, and prepares fit tools for the designs of ambition. ... While we have land to labour, then, let us never wish to see our citizens occupied at a work-bench or twirling a distaff. ... For the general operations of manufacture let our workshops remain in Europe. It is better to carry provisions and materials to workmen there than bring them to the provisions and materials and with them their manners and principles. The mobs of great cities add just so much to the support of pure government as sores do to the strength of the human body. It is the manners and spirit of a people which preserve a republic in vigour. A degeneracy in these is a canker which soon eats to the heart of its laws and constitution." -Thomas Jefferson

5. This is merely the 2nd Amendment.

6. Misquoted, but nevertheless remarkably prescient.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Here are a few more, for your enjoyment, and to make it a nice, round 10 (not counting 4.1):

7. "One single object... [will merit] the endless gratitude of society: that of restraining the judges from usurping legislation." -Thomas Jefferson

8. "The true key for the construction of everything doubtful in a law is the intention of the law-makers. This is most safely gathered from the words, but may be sought also in extraneous circumstances provided they do not contradict the express words of the law." -Thomas Jefferson

9. "On every question of construction carry ourselves back to the time when the Constitution was adopted, recollect the spirit manifested in the debates and instead of trying what meaning may be squeezed out of the text or invented against it, conform to the probable one in which it was passed." -Thomas Jefferson

10. "Congress has not unlimited powers to provide for the general welfare, but only those specifically enumerated." -Thomas Jefferson

Why are you here, Dave?

I have seen few (if any) posts from you that want to be in an honest discussion of issues near and dear to our hearts here on BlueNC. I have often posted material here that I get trashed and bashed for and am often "taken to the woodshed" for thinking outside the norm here. I go back and rethink my position and posts and sometimes just know I've been stupid in my presentation. But you? You seem to be here to create dissention, to stir the pot so to speak.

Look outside the box, Dave. Take it from me, it is very cleansing.


Gee, Foxtrot, I'm really not feelin' the love. :-(

Cummon, tell me you didn't at least enjoy quote #4.1, above? I shared it with that Jefferson-impersonator fellow from Colonial Williamsburg, and he enjoyed it.