Was Marx right?

So... in the car this morning after getting new tires (hooray safety) I was flipping through the channels on the radio and heard something that almost made me crash.

When they get done with upping the minimum wage. The government will be forcing American businesses to pay workers more than they are worth.

Read that quote again. "The EVIL government will be forcing wholesome and patriotic American businesses to pay dirty, greedy workers more than they are worth."

All that time I had been reading Marx thinking, "Capitalism might be evil but people arent right?" Well, apparently the answer is, No. People are evil. And some people love business more than they love their fellow man. I wont bore everyone with all the economic mumbo jumbo that makes this statement null and void. In fact I wont even bring up the joyous experiences of NAFTA and CAFTA.

All I will say is, this "free" trade, lowest bidder bullshit is disgusting. American workers deserve an honest pay for their work. The fact is that minimum wage workers deserve far and above the tiny raise the government will be mandating very soon.

You know who is really getting paid more than he is worth? The no good freedom hating you know what that gets paid to sit in a room and talk on the radio all day. Which gives more benefit to society? A guy who talks all day and does nothing else or a guy who works 8-12 hour shifts at a crummy resteraunt making sure people like you and I dont die of food poisoning. If you cant answer that question...


I have a business

I have a business and pay my employees well over the current or proposed minimum wage and average even more than the "living wage" of $9.06 defined by many. As people, my employees are amazing and worth more than money. As employees, they have a monetary value tied to what they produce and what I can sell it for. It is usually a value lower than what I would like it to be. Running a successful business is flippin' hard and you have to at least break even to stay alive. I could pay them all $20/hr (about what I pay myself in base pay), but we'd be bankrupt in a couple of months.

I can honestly say that if the minimum wage were raised "far and above" the proposed $7.25(?) it just might put us out of business. I don't know if price increases to cover this drastic jump in the minimum wage would fly with our customers. There's certainly not a lot of profit floating around here to absorb increases in costs. What we sell are not necessities of life and therefore not guaranteed sellers regardless of the price. Since I can't really pay people more than we already do, I do my best to provide a healthy, respectful workplace with a family atmosphere. But hey, if I had some guarantee we would not go out of business if we were required to pay and charge for someone's concept of a "living wage," i'd be happy to do so.

Thanks for posting this

I'm in business too . . . have been for 25 years . . . and I know exactly what you're writing about. It's rough and I've had to lay people off several times in the past two decades because costs were too high for the incoming revenue. At one point I had my house second-mortgaged to pay operating expenses.

All that said, I support a minimum wage. I also support getting businesses completely out of providing healthcare.

Healthcare, Layoffs

I'm all for getting out of the healthcare business too. That would be $60k+ more for wages as long as employment taxes wouldn't increase by the same amount.

Re:Layoffs. I hate it. The death of my mother was the only thing more painful to me than having to tell large number of loyal, long-time employees that we had failed them and could no longer provide them with a livelihood.


embracing their humanity is pretty key in my opinion. Regardless, the simple statement that they are both people and employees places you above the radio personality in question.

As a small business owner, what is your gut reaction to a system like Oregon has that would tie the minimum wage to inflation. (as in we raise it to $7.25 this year then it goes up 2% or whatever every year after that)


"Keep the Faith"

As a business owner, I have

As a business owner, I have to look at the cold, hard numbers. As long as I can afford it through continued sales at higher prices, the sky is the limit as to what people could get paid. $7.25 is below even probationary starting pay here, so the specific number proposed has little effect at this point. If it went up to $13 tomorrow, I'd probably do best by shutting the doors and bonusing out our remaining cash as we wouldn't likely last long.

If the mandated base and wage increase caused my business to go under, I at least have to partly blame the government as stable employment for all of us is better than signing up at the Employment Security Commission.

my contention

It has been my contention that if we removed all the other road blocks that screw over small businesses we could raise the minimum wage to a 'living' wage no problem. From what I saw with my Dad trying to run his own small consulting firm the deck seems stacked against small business.

Granted I dont have the experience you two seem to have, but the deck seems stacked against small businesses for many reasons beyond wage levels. For instance, its my impression that the current tax structure is written by and for and big businesses and it ends up forcing small business to pay a lot of the burden that a larger business could and should be bearing.

But I could be wrong.


"Keep the Faith"

I agree. The deck does seem

I agree. The deck does seem to be stacked against us (the little guy). Being in business, even though I feel I am a good enlightened employer, I have a hard time being real in love with the government. The various tax burdens and the ludicrous (be it originally well-intentioned) regulation of other matters, really make me dislike government being any bigger or more intrusive than it absolutely has to be. Am I a "compassionate capitalist" or maybe a "compassionate libertarian?" All I know is I have a heart but still get screwed by the government and maligned by the Marxists.


The 'well intentioned' line is the real crux of my problem with current regulations. Not because I think regulations are bad, quite the contrary. I just think they are used to do the opposite of what they should be doing.

For instance, most people believe that we over regulate on certain issues. Yet, we completely ignore the consolidation that is occuring within most industries, to the point that we have very few free markets, if you use a classic definition of a free market.

To me, that is the absurdity of these right wingers' arguments. They talk a big game about free markets and capitalism, yet they end up pushing for policies that discourage small business and hurt employees. While spouting off about hard work and rags to riches they reward the rich and punish the poor while punishing hard work.

(end rant)


"Keep the Faith"

I wonder how much we could raise the minimum wage...

if the large corporations actually PAID taxes and if we didn't give welfare to oil companies, car companies, and corn producers? But, instead, we passed these savings on to small business in the form of tax breaks or health care for their employees.

em>CountryCrats - my thoughts, my blog.

Jesus Swept ticked me off. Too short. I loved the characters and then POOF it was over.

such as...

But of the 275 Fortune 500 companies that made a profit each year from 2001 to 2003 and for which adequate information to draw conclusions is publicly available, only a small proportion paid federal income taxes anywhere near that statutory 35 percent tax rate. The vast majority paid considerably less.


Over the three-year period, the average effective rate for all 275 companies dropped by a fifth, from 21.4 percent in 2001 to 17.2 percent in 2002-2003.

The statistics are startling:

* Eighty-two of the 275 companies, almost a third of the total, paid zero or less in federal income taxes in at least one year from 2001 to 2003. ...
* Twenty-eight corporations enjoyed negative federal income tax rates over the entire 2001-2003 period. ...
* In 2003 alone, 46 companies paid zero or less in federal income taxes. These 46 companies told their shareholders they earned U.S. pretax profits in 2003 of $42.6 billion, yet they received tax rebates totaling $5.4 billion. ...
* In 2001, the Treasury paid corporations $40 billion in tax refunds, a third more than the 1998-2000 average.
* Then in 2002 and 2003, after the law was changed to expand tax subsidies and make it easier for corporations to carry back excess tax breaks to earlier years, corporate tax refunds skyrocketed to an average of $63 billion a year - more than double the 1998-2000 average.

CountryCrats - my thoughts, my blog.

Jesus Swept ticked me off. Too short. I loved the characters and then POOF it was over.

couple of things

I have started reading Sherrod Brown's book about trade. One thing he mentions is tax cuts that were passed in the name of the war on terror in october 2001 that RETROACTIVELY gave the biggest businesses tax cuts for every year back to 1986. Which is why we ended up sending many of them a check. ((Its only welfare it is a person))

Also, there have been some interesting stories about who the IRS is investigating for tax fraud and the amount of money it is leading to them getting versus what would be gained by the same amount of investigation done on more wealthy individuals. I wonder if the same stuff applies to corporations.

Changing train of thoughts...this is the type of stuff we need to be talking about when the puppets say Democrats are bad for business. Protecting small businesses owned by Americans is a GOOD thing. Destroying them so that WalMart can make an extra 5 bucks is not good.


"Keep the Faith"