Pace's Problem: Army of None

By now you've heard the solemn words of the Theocrat currently serving as Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.

“I believe homosexual acts between two individuals are immoral and that we should not condone immoral acts,” he said. “I do not believe the United States is well-served by a policy that says it is O.K. to be immoral in any way.”

The general told The Tribune that he would not want acceptance of gay behavior “to be our policy, just like I would not want it to be our policy that if we were to find out that so-and-so was sleeping with somebody else’s wife, that we would just look the other way, which we do not. We prosecute that kind of immoral behavior.”

As an ex-Navy officer who spent three years in the company of Marines at Camp Lejeune, I can tell you with certainty that General Pace would soon find himself with an Army of NONE if he aggressively prosecuted so-called immoral behavior. The Bible doesn't approve of any sex outside of marriage. Which means anybody who has ever gotten laid without the benefits of god's blessing in marriage should be discharged immediately from military service.

General Peter Pace a fool, in way over his head. Just one more example of how the Child King in the White House is reducing the United States military into a sad shadow of its former greatness.

Cross-posted at Daily Kos.



Just noticed my own tag . . . "Military affairs" . . . simply Freudian.

and the fundies come forth

As you might imagine, I've been posting about this at my pad:

* Gen. Pace: no apologies for calling gays immoral
* Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff: gays are 'immoral'

I was waiting to see what wingers were going to come forward and bleat away, and the fundies didn't disappoint. This is from an e-blast from the whining Gary Bauer (via ex-gay proponent Randy Thomas), who has an action alert to support Pace up on the Campaign for Working Families web site:

.. what really has General Pace in such "hot water" is not that he defended the policy, but that he made the "mistake" of answering honestly and dared to express his view that homosexual conduct is "immoral" - a view shared by millions of Americans and taught by every major religion.  Once again, we are seeing how the demands to normalize homosexuality are coming in direct conflict with religious freedom.

This is yet one more example of why we are losing the culture war.  We have gone from a culture where expressing support for immoral behavior could cost you your job to a culture where expressing support for traditional morality can cost you your job.  When a small group of radicals can convince us that our values are "bigoted," that we must remain silent, that we have no rights to express our views publicly, they win and we lose.  The debate is shut down because we have surrendered the field.

And ex-gay-for-pay Alan Chambers weighs in:

General Pace's comments were true and firmly rooted in his upbringing and faith.

I am thankful for the fact that we still have leaders in high posts who are willing to be respectfully honest about their beliefs and opinions without regard for what is politically correct.  I am tired of our leaders caving into the intimidation that comes from the heavy handed gay activist community.  There is still room in the debate over homosexuality for the Judeo-Christian perspective.

These sad sacks cannot seem to understand that there is no room for debate about the morality or immorality of homosexuality in the military. The debate is whether openly gay and lesbian servicemembers can serve their country, just as their heterosexual fellow citizens can. There is no bible-based decisionmaking that is relevant when the issue goes before Congress.

Pam Spaulding
Durham, NC USA

Pam's House Blend

Pam Spaulding
Durham, NC USA

Pam's House Blend

If I were gay

I think I'd be a violent subversive. Seriously. This kind of stuff just blows my head off. I almost hope Pete Pace finds himself needing help in a hurry, only to find the Marines who are supposed to be covering his ass are gay. He might all of a sudden wish he hadn't been such a bigoted @$$hole.

Thanks for stopping by, Pam.

General Hooker! You are wanted at your HQ's The nurses arrived?

“I do not believe the United States is well-served by a policy that says it is O.K. to be immoral in any way.”* Rear General Pace

It appears that General Pace must have miss that class at West Point on " Noted camp followers in military history from Alexander The Great to Cat Houses in Pearl Harbor during WW2"

We might be looking at the only General in military history who fights by himself without a Army.


don't link him to West Point (US Military Academy). He graduated from the Naval Academy (Anglico's school!), known by Army types as "Canoe U."

Interestingly enough, Pace graduated in 1967. For a frame of reference, Oliver North and Sen. Jim Webb were 1968 graduates.


Okay! Line up for Barrel Hole inspection Boys!

don't link him to West Point (US Military Academy). He graduated from the Naval Academy (Anglico's school!), known by Army types as "Canoe U."* fnBlack

Dang! I own WP a apolopy. The General must have miss that class on Naval Warfare about whose time is it in the Barrel! Do you really believe all of those cabin boys in the Brit navy were pages for Admiral Foley?

Attention! General on Tour!

General Pace must have miss this Dress Inspection Drill during WW2

General XXX: Private! Are you Queer?

Private: Sir! What is that?

General XXX: Do you fiddle around with other Privates and their parts?

Private: No Sir! We just play around in the shower to see if hair will grow on our palms.

General XXX: Good Answer Son! Now go out there and corn hole the first Nazi you see. Than kill the Bastard!

Private: Sir! If I do that! Can I join the Wacs and kick Jap ass with our Amazons.

General XXX: Whatever it takes Son!

Has it escaped the notice

of the party of greed, that greed, and lying, and a couple of their other favorite activities, are listed right alongside their own favorite "sins"? Their hypocrisy knows no bounds!

Christians seem to be big in the judgement department

Please correct me here if I'm wrong, but isn't there a passage somewhere that says, "Watch out how you judge others dammit, because that's how you'll be judged!" (I think that's the Queen James version)

No matter that patriotism is too often the refuge of scoundrels. Dissent, rebellion, and all-around hell-raising remain the true duty of patriots.

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I like your Queen James translation.

The NIV has:

Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.

Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, "Let me take the speck out of your eye," when there is a plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye."

Matthew 7:1-5.

Bunch of hypocrites.

If only

Pace et al put as much energy into decrying the current immorality that is the Iraq war ... or any pre-emptive war for that matter.
Dharma Pup

this turned out to be an opportunity for Warner...

I bring your attention to the following:

March 13, 2007 — In a rare rebuke of the nation's top military officer, Sen. John Warner, R-Va., says he strongly disagrees with Gen. Peter Pace's views that homosexuality is "immoral."

"I respectfully, but strongly, disagree with the chairman's view that homosexuality is immoral," Warner said in a statement released by his office.

Warner was reacting to Pace's unusual defense of the military's "don't ask, don't tell" policy on gays in the military.

"Repealing the estate tax is like choosing the 2020 Olympic team by picking the eldest sons of the gold-medal winners in the 2000 Olympics". - Warren Buffett

"Repealing the estate tax is like choosing the 2020 Olympic team by picking the eldest sons of the gold-medal winners in the 2000 Olympics". - Warren Buffett

General Pace's statements about Gays in the military

In what was to be a "Public Policy statement" about Homosexuals in the Military wherein he was supposed to discuss the "don't ask, don't tell" policy now in effect in the Us Military, General Pace began to detour from the script.

The subect was germain because the Congress is presently considering a bill that will eleminate that policy.

In the course of discussion the General began to talk about his own personal beliefs and his personal views regarding the moral plane which he places the issue and those who embrace homosexuality as a life style. When, in an official posture, he began to decale the immorality of homosexuals, he step over the perverbial line.

Big mistake on his part. Professionally, that is not what he was there to discuss. He was in uniform and on official business to discuss the US Military position and policy regarding gays in the military. Noting more, nothing less.

The General has every right to his opinion and stateing it publically. Who would deny him that? No good American would.

There is no constitutional right to "not be offended".

He already regrets where the discussion went and has said as much.

What surprized me however was the intolerance and vulger attacks on the General for saying what he thought.

He did not raise his voice or his "clinched fist". He did not swear or cuss. I did not hear him denegrate anyone or attack anyone who disagreed with him.

He simply said what he thought in a forum which was inappropriate. Had he said it while sitting at home in his civilian cloths, would he have also been the evil man you are making him? Today, is our enemy anyone who respectfully disagrees with us?

Are those who disagree with your views automatically evil, and intolerant?

From what I have read here, sadly, you would make being honest a crime if you could. If that is true, then Democracy and peaceful co-existance is on it's way to the grave as well.

I do not necessarally agree with everthing the general said, but so what! If I did , would you hate me too?

The gay community exists and interacts in every facet of American society today. They do not agree with everthing they see and hear. Straight people do not agree with everything they see and hear either.....but we are neighbors and friends all over America across the board. Lets talk, lets agree and disagree, but lets not hate each other. This is America.

The world is filled with so much hate and intolerance these days.........What happened?

Marshall Adame
2014 U.S. Congress Candidate NC-03

What happened?

What happened is the Karl Rove politics of destruction. What happened is a full-scale assault on personal freedoms, all the while granting the so-called "free-markets" rights that in many cases trump those enjoyed by human beings.

What happened is thousands of men and women - many of them immoral according to Peter Pace - dying for the lies and greed of the leaders of the Republican Party.

What happened is that all the nice people on the left sat back and watched incredulously as the right wing moved to establish a Constitutional monarchy. What happened is the Child King in the White House has subverted democracy again and again and again, and the nice people on the left have said, "oh, that's okay."

This entry isn't about hating Peter Pace. I certainly don't hate him. I just think he's a shitty leader and a flaming hypocrite.

This entry is about Pace's comments that the military should not be condoning "immoral" behavior. This entry is about the inappropriateness of a leader who picks and chooses which kind of "immoral" he's going to rail about, while leaving other kinds of "immoral" alone - for example, killing hundreds of thousands of Iraqi citizens, for example, allowing wounded veterans to flail unattended in the halls of crappy hospitals, for example, allowing skinheads and white supremacists to wear the uniform and represent the United States of America.

Maybe you'd be willing to hold hands and sing Kumbaya with people who considered you to be an immoral human being because of your sexuality, but I wouldn't.

What Happened?

This is not about holding hands and singing Kubaya.

It is not about being a hypocrite...(My guess is we all could wear that coat).....I think it is more about anger, frustration and the feeling of helplessness in the face of such a powerful force which has wrought so much destruction (political and physical) in the world over such a short period of time.

Anglico, the best revenge is success. The Republican leadership of our country has run roughshod over our preciious and sacred Constitution, mocked our Bill Of Rights and have attacked, through cutting off of funds and resources, the very most vunerable elements of our society,our poor, our children, our enviorment.

I am amoung the most angry. I have sat at very high levels, listening to decsion making grounded in political consideration and ambition. Decisions which effected thousands of people and endangered our troops and cilvilians. Decisions with no strategic or tactical value, but which served political ends in Iraq. You can rant at me all day my brother, and I will not be offended by you. I guess it the way you are able to cope with it all. I cope differently. I plan and learn. I occupy myself with working toward a place where I can make the difference.

I write and talk about my views too. I work towards the goal in a way it will most express who I really am. If I end up, in the view of others, as not worth their vote, so be it, but I will know who I am nevertheless.
I will be better for it.

Keep you eyes on the prize Anglico. I have read a lot of the things you have written. There is a lot of good there. You really care about our country and its future. If I had the energy you have and could channel it, I would already be President of the United States.

I will settle for Congress in 2008.

Marshall Adame
2014 U.S. Congress Candidate NC-03

Thanks, Marshall

I know I get carried away sometimes, but I work hard not to hate - and you are right to caution against that. My 16 year old daughter reads the newspaper and says, "I hate George Bush." It takes every ounce of control I have to remind her that hating gives power to the person being hated.

I am doing everything I can to keep from becoming beat down by those who would take our liberties and destroy our common ground. Some days, the best I can do is raise holy hell and scream.

It's good to be reminded to keep my eyes on the prize. Thank you.


PS If you think I'm having a conniption about Pace, just look around at entries like this and we'll all looks sane in comparison.

The Local Paper

sometimes emails me seeking a quick editorial on a hot issue. Today I sent them this:

"I now believe that if gay men and lesbians served openly in the United States military, they would not undermine the efficacy of the armed forces. Our military has been stretched thin by our deployments in the Middle East , and we must welcome the service of any American who is willing and able to do the job."

"24 foreign nations, including Israel , Britain and other allies in the fight against terrorism, let gays serve openly, with none reporting morale or recruitment problems."- Former General John M. Shalikashvili, January 2, 2007

In an era when we are asking our troops to suffer multiple deployments under the Dept. of Defense's Stop Loss program even as we undertrain and underequip their reinforcements, it unwise and immoral to shrink our military readiness by excluding able-bodied men and women due to their sexual orientation.

After training linguists for 63 weeks, the military is discharging them because they are homosexuals. “Nearly 800 specialists with critical skills have been fired from the U.S. military under DADT, including 323 linguists, 55 of whom specialized in Arabic” How many of our servicemen and women will die because there aren't enough translators on the battlefields of Iraq and Afghanistan?

The Dept. of Defense is granting waivers to criminals enlisting even as they purge homosexual men and women from the ranks who are serving their country with distinction and honor. "The number of waivers granted to Army recruits with criminal backgrounds has grown about 65 percent in the last three years, increasing to 8,129 in 2006 from 4,918 in 2003, Department of Defense records show." Approximately 11,000 gay men and women have been discharged since "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" went into effect.

One solution that's been presented to Congress is the Military Readiness Enhancement Act, first introduced by Rep. Marty Meehan with 122 cosponsors. Thousands of gay, lesbian, and bisexual Americans currently serve in the military. The MREA will allow them to do so without lying and without systemic harassment. Enacting a policy of non-discrimination will strengthen our military readiness as gay and lesbian Americans will be able to volunteer without having to lie about who they are.

We honor all of our soldiers serving in Iraq , Afghanistan , and around the world. Or do we? Will we continue to enshrine discrimination even as we preach freedom, or will we open the national mind?

Scrutiny Hooligans -

Basing policy on a current reading of the Bible

is just wrong on so many levels. Beyond even the separation of church and state, how many times has "current" understanding of the Bible led to hurtful behavior toward some group?

When I moved to North Carolina in the 1980's, I met "good Christians" who insisted that the Bible prohibits interracial marriage, and they quoted chapter and verse. How many still thinks that's what it means? The church I attended in Selma had an old stained glass window above the front door, bearing the legend "United Methodist Church South." What does that mean? The church split in the 19th century, over the issue of slavery. Some "good Christians" believed that, because the Bible tells slaves how to behave and does not condemn the institution of slavery, that it therefore condones, even approves of slavery. Some "good Christians" were able to point to something in the Bible that demonstrates that people of color are somehow less in God's eyes than whites. I must admit, that last still remains a mystery to me. The issues about slavery and interracial marriage, at least I could see where it came from and understand the argument even though I didn't agree with it.

Going back in history, Galileo's last years were made miserable by the Catholic Church, simply because he told the truth about what he saw through his telescope. Before him, Copernicus made arrangements not to have his work published until after his death, because he knew how the church would react. Why? Because the church believed that the Bible posited the earth as the center of the universe, with the sun, moon and stars revolving around the earth. To state otherwise was to become a heretic.

Today, we have "good Christians" focusing on a few verses in the Bible to condemn homosexuality. We should remember that they are doing that in good conscience, even if they are wrong. My personal opinion is that the Bible condemns sexual promiscuity, whether homosexual or heterosexual. The Bible condemns prostitution, speaking of both male and female prostitutes. I do not think the Bible addresses the issue of committed relationships between people of the same sex.

Those "good Christians" that I met in the 1980's - did they eventually change their opinion about interracial marriage? I think some of them did, over time. I think, over the course of many discussions, they at least began to question that belief, and some of them seemed to come around. People do not change firmly held beliefs overnight, but sometimes they do come around over time.


Am I missing something? Do the fundies know something I don't know? Are gays dangerous? Should I be afraid?


Be Not Afraid

heh, couldn't help it. I think that the biggest problem is that these people are torn inside. If they do not condemn then are they condoning? Maybe what they have forgotten is the part about loving your neighbor like yourself and all. But, let's not let love get in the way of a good fear-mongering.

No matter that patriotism is too often the refuge of scoundrels. Dissent, rebellion, and all-around hell-raising remain the true duty of patriots.

Progressive Discussions