Open thread: I'm voting Republican

Comments

Fixin' to.

I'm so glad I'm home today (graduation night!). Otherwise, I wouldn't be able to see it or pass it on until after dinner. :)

"It is amazing what you can accomplish if you do not care who gets the credit." - Harry Truman

"They took all the trees and put them in a tree museum Then they charged the people a dollar 'n a half just to see 'em. Don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you've got till it's gone? They paved paradise and put up a parking lot."

Southern speak

Fixin' is one of the terms I have had to explain to my in-laws. My wife is from the Great White North and whenever we travel to the wilds of Manitoba and Ontario I always end up having to define some slang I have used.

"jump in where you can and hang on"
Briscoe Darling to Sheriff Andy

Thanks!

It is really smoky outside today. I hope all the small people and old people will be ok.

"It is amazing what you can accomplish if you do not care who gets the credit." - Harry Truman

"They took all the trees and put them in a tree museum Then they charged the people a dollar 'n a half just to see 'em. Don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you've got till it's gone? They paved paradise and put up a parking lot."

high particulates

Leslie, today is a code orange air quality alert day for particulates (soot), in large part because the wind is coming our way from a large forest fire (near Washington, as I recall). The air quality is expected to reach unhealthy levels for sensitive populations as a result.

Dan Besse

Dan Besse

distance variation

Yeah, the Triangle is closer to the fire than the Triad (which projections I've been reading) and will likely stay downwind longer even as the prevailing wind shifts from east to south over the next day or so.

Particulate pollution is more quickly variable based on local factors than ozone. Big holiday fireworks celebrations can actually affect regional readings. There's a reason why open burning of any kind is banned on projected code orange or above days.

We still don't know why Davidson County consistently has a higher baseline particulates reading than most of the more urban counties in the state. The scientists joke about Lexington barbeque. At least, I think they're joking...

Dan Besse

Dan Besse

I thought that was due to Hege

firing his pistol out the window while high-speed chasing suspected shoplifters? :)

Really smoky here tonight.

I don't know if that's what it's from or not. I hope it clears by Saturday morning. Grandma really wants to watch her grandson walk across that stage.

Be the change you wish to see in the world. --Gandhi
Pointing at Naked Emperors

My favorite part

is in the credits when it says no republicans were harmed in the making of the video. I love irony!

It is impossible to defeat an ignorant man in argument.
- William G. McAdoo

It is impossible to defeat an ignorant man in argument.
- William G. McAdoo

One had giveth, the other hand bomb-bomb-bombeth?

Before John McCain starts a war with Iran, he'd like for top campaign advisers to be able to sell them some information technology:

According to reports, one of John McCain's top economic surrogates-- Republican National Committee Victory Fund Chair Carly Fiorina--was head of Hewlett-Packard at a time when the company was actively working to circumvent export controls established as part of a trade boycott of Iran. This report makes Fiorina the second senior McCain advisor in as many weeks to be linked to companies doing business in Iran. Last week, on the same day Senator McCain called for the "the moral clarity and conviction of civilized nations" to organize "a divestment campaign" aimed at isolating Iran, the Huffington Post reported senior advisor Charlie Black lobbied for a Chinese oil company doing work in Iran. Before that, reports revealed that the lobbying firm co-owned by McCain campaign manager Rick Davis represented Ukrainian companies doing business in Iran.

According to a 2004 article in Forbes, Hewlett-Packard was "among many other U.S. companies" that kept offices in Dubai and were linked to Iranian traders there. As the report noted, "If you want to get around export controls, just sell the product to a front company in Dubai. The middlemen will take it from there." The CEO of Hewlett-Packard at the time was Carly Fiorina. In fact, Fiorina bragged about Hewlett-Packard's success in the Middle East during a 2003 corporate earnings call. [Forbes, 4/19/04; Hewlett Packard Q1 2003 Earnings Conference Call, Fair Disclosure Wire, 2/25/03]

"The fact that John McCain is stocking his campaign with lobbyists and corporate executives who have profited from companies doing business in Iran raises serious questions about his promise to stop Iran from obtaining nuclear weapons," said Democratic National Committee Senior Advisor Matt Dorf. "McCain has consistently taken a 'do as I say, not as I do' approach to the reforms he claims to support, but our nation's security is too important for games like this. If McCain is serious about his call to isolate Iran, he will rid his campaign of any advisors and strategists who worked to circumvent the American government's trade boycott."

John McCain ought to at least end the war with his own record before he sends more of our troops into harm's way.

- - - - -
McCain - The Third Bush Term

Riiiiiight

Because you'd rather see more of this and this and this. Nice to see you have your priorities straight.

No, it doesn't even come close

n/t



***************************
Vote Democratic! The ass you save may be your own.

Ok, but

this is confusing.

If this doesn't come close, then how does one *know* how to distinguish which sarcastic remark is too sarcastic and which sneer is too sneering?

Given the times you and James have threatened to have me removed or invited me to leave based upon my comments that I made that were supposed to have been offensive and discouraging to the atmosphere of communication around here, I'm asking, in earnest, whether you aren't determining the line based upon who is doing the posting rather than HOW he or she expresses himself.

Thanks

Thank you for making this a community conversation. I'm relieved. Your questions give me pause. I need to think them through, but here are some initial reactions.

Different standards?
This is important. For example, did my comment to Justin cross some line? For sure it did. And you're right to ask whether my line is the same as yours. I hope it is, but I'm not sure.

The only case I can make that would explain a difference is the fact that I'm an owner of BlueNC. I am responsible for taking the long view. Do I always carry that responsibility wisely, not by a long shot. But I carry it all the same.

The sharpened edge. I know I can be hard to take and I know my writings have been offensive, especially a year or so ago when I was truly mad with anger. That anger helped get BlueNC moving, but it is proving less productive these days. And distracting. (When John Hood called me Angrico, he really got my attention. I'm still mad as hell, but I'm doing my best to tone it down.)Your edge is far sharper than mine and used far more frequently. And in place of my madness, you bring sarcasm.

The last part of my comment to Justin was sarcastic, and I shouldn't have written it. I believe sarcasm is fundamentally destructive. I welcome the opportunity to be held accountable when I do it. Sorry, Justin. My foul.

I don't know if this helps or not, but it's what I'm thinking. And it's written purely for the possibility that we'll find a way to stay engaged.

And I thank you

But another way to look at the afore-mentioned exchange could be -- for the sake of argument here -- that you and Justin go way, way back since childhood and have a friendship that is characterized by lots of teasing. Because that sort of thing does go on among old friends (and new), and yet could be perceived by others as having an entirely opposite tone and intent.

Because if I didn't think I knew you, I might not have assumed that you were being snarky. And it was an assumption that you could well have challenged by saying it was good natured ribbing between the two of you. See my point here? Because in my family we tease a lot, sometimes hard, I tend to be thick-skinned and even assume that others are teasing when it later turns out that they weren't.

And that's the problem. There have been times I have been accused of being snarky when I thought I was ribbing someone in good nature. There have been times when I was definitely being snarky and got called on it for good reason.

But there's no way for most of us to really *know* when a given member is or laughing or snarling when he/she writes, and sometimes it's going to be nothing more than the mood of the reader that determines which.

I wrote an earlier post that disappeared into the netherland but it started by noting that the hosts of this blog can draw up whatever rules they wish and it is up to people like me to accept them or take our sorry hides elsewhere.

I would like to abide by whatever the standards are, but again, I think they shift rather unpredictably.

I looked at your comment above as a sarcastic frame

encompassing three valid points, the links. Justin knew he was asking for such a response; he plays the game. That's the context and it's ok.

A drive-by poster who slings perjoratives or a poster who consistently provokes abd denigrates other posters should be looked upon in a more negative light.

Person County Democrats

I actively oppose gerrymandering. Do you?

No need to apologize

I come on to the most popular blog on the Left in North Carolina with a smug picture of the most popular, living humorist on the Right and post a link to a goofy video about your presidential nominee in response to an equally goofy (yet better produced) video - I'm going to take a few licks. But, I'm big boy.

I think people need to step back and consider some real abuses of commenting. A couple of years ago, I encountered a great example and then another one that LiberalNC had to deal with (see here).

I've yet to encounter anything on that level here. For that, the BlueNC team deserves props.

Cabarruscheapseats.com: Reasoned Discussion of Cabarrus County, NC News & Politics

Justin and his Republican Hero worship on the net?

I come on to the most popular blog on the Left in North Carolina with a smug picture of the most popular, living humorist on the Right and post a link to a goofy video about your presidential nominee in response to an equally goofy (yet better produced) video - I'm going to take a few licks. But, I'm big boy* Justin

Keep on trucking Justin! You have just pick the wrong hero once again in this era of Republican Hero worship!. Of course, Justin figures also lionize him because it enhances, or so he thinks, his own bloated sense of self-importance.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlqXq8YxQFQ&eurl=http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/

See what I mean?

Contrary to Steve's young 'un's opinion, there is no actual threshold for "adulthood," and it isn't so crystal clear, is it (?) who is being funny and who is being snarky and who is being a mix of both that at least a good portion of the blog audience can appreciate.

But oh wait . . . is someone offended? One person? Two people? Jiminy Crickets -- we can't have that.

I propose that when guys rib each other, it should be ok, because guys can sort of understand when guys are playing rough on the field. But when there's a beeotch making snark, we need to tighten up on community standards, 'cause it's one thing for guys to be playful but another entirely if a female makes the same kind of remarks. In THAT case, I think we need to get a rope and gather some kindling.

(Oops -- was that too sarcastic?)

I do miss being so very young and so very certain that everything could be easily labeled black or white.

Oh, Brunette.

I'm hereby registering www.BruNC.com. Maybe THERE, you won't complain.

No, it wasn't too sarcastic,

I propose that when guys rib each other, it should be ok, because guys can sort of understand when guys are playing rough on the field. But when there's a beeotch making snark, we need to tighten up on community standards, 'cause it's one thing for guys to be playful but another entirely if a female makes the same kind of remarks. In THAT case, I think we need to get a rope and gather some kindling.

(Oops -- was that too sarcastic?)

it was just wrong.

Apparently you've forgotten that it was James jumping on Justin that you used as an example of the unfairness in the standards here, but now the issue has somehow morphed into sexism?

Puzzling theory there, Steve

Why on earth would you think a person can only cite one example of inconsistency? (Is there a "you can only use one example" clause somewhere that I overlooked?)

Actually, you inspired this observation with your point about "it's only human." I think lots of people who don't believe they're engaging in racism or sexism do so without thinking about it.

Whatever. I made my point a while back and coulda/shoulda let this last instance go. Not sure why it's a matter of such interest to you, since you're not the one under attack, but maybe you feel somehow implicitly accused?

If ya wanna keep it going, by all means do the cut and past thing about who said what when where etc . . .

Of course I'm implicitly accused.

When you make a comment that implies x,y or z problem is prevalent in a community, that implication casts a pretty wide net. Since I'm a male (and now a front-pager), you caught me in that net. Or at least I feel caught in the net, anyway.

And I generally do the cut and paste thing so people know what I'm talking about. I have a tendency toward the ambiguous, and without the quoted material, people often wonder wtf I'm talking about.

Of course the who and what

are factors, Bru. They can't not be, because perception is driven (in part) by unavoidable prejudicial tendencies based on previous observed behavior.

We know that Justin holds differing views from the majority of posters here, and we know that he is prone to poke us with a stick from time to time. He posted the video with the obvious goal of generating a negative response, and he got one. Which means that (in this case) intent was not ambiguous.

but but but

Steve,

Honestly, I thought that Justin was welcome here. I think he's kind of funny. Obnoxious, yeah, a little, but so what?

I don't agree with his perspective, and I think he *does* poke sticks, but so do you, so does James, and so does Kosh and so do many, many, many people who may or may not have the exact same intent/attitude. But why isn't that ok for Justin or for Locomotive Breath or anyone else who doesn't happen to agree with our political mindset?

Do you see where I'm going here? It's kind of like the Trolls thread. If a person is a troll, then sure, that's irritating, but so is standing in the line at the grocery store when the person behind you won't step up and close a space that Hannibals' Army could pass through (ok, pet peeve).

And doesn't it sort of start a chain reaction when you say "oh but he meant a negative response," if that by itself justifies a negative response?

That is, if you post something ridiculing and accusing etc . . . . and you get an answer in kind back, is the person giving the answer in kind given a pass, but the next guy NOT given a pass?

I just got an email from James that sadly informs me that TWO members of this blog are reluctant to contribute because of MY comments, and that unless I "tone it down," my account will be deleted.

Tone WHAT down? Profanity? I don't use profanity that much. Sarcasm? Well, yes, but I've got stiff competition in that category from James. Insult? I think I'm beat there, too, by James and several others. But then, these are all subjective terms.

And they're being applied pretty subjectively, too.

Associations and self-identification

But why isn't that ok for Justin or for Locomotive Breath or anyone else who doesn't happen to agree with our political mindset?

One of these days when robots rule the world the kind of objective purity you're alluding to might come about. Then again, those future robots would probably immediately deactivate Justin 3.0 when it started waving its arms around and making fun of the other robots. ;)

People generally associate because their similar beliefs far outweigh their differences. For better or worse, people become "invested" in this association, and any effort to malign the people or views of such will feel like a personal insult to many who have invested themselves in the association.

That's just easily predictable human behavior, and I know that you're already aware of that. Just as you're aware that there is a difference between efforts to antagonize and reactions to said antagonism. It may not be black and white, but to presume they should be viewed in the same light is to ignore everything we've learned about human behavior.

Good points, Steve

but you know there's a "but" coming.

I'm not saying we should ignore what we know about human behavior. Actually, I'm saying we better keep it in mind.

That is, before you/we decide someone's opinion or the manner of its expression is so odious that it cannot be tolerated, switch gears a bit, leave off the rationalizing your/our gut reaction (which is going to be rooted in emotion -- and quite possibly in a personal grudge) and do some hard thinking about whether the same tone/'tude has just been exemplified by someone you like and agree with.

It may not be black and white, but to presume they should be viewed in the same light is to ignore everything we've learned about human behavior.

And I'm saying is that if the goal of this blog is to promote interesting and open discussion, more effort *should* be directed toward applying the same standards for behavior/posting to everyone, including hosts.

Catchy Tune

I'll be humming it today and pondering the irony of the proposition that it's the left intruding on our personal liberty.

On Obnoxiousness

Brunette is correct. Who among us can say he or she is truly qualified to be the the line judge, the home plate umpire, the Versus TV Ultimate Fight Challenge referee, the final abiter, and the rightful judge, OVER BAD TASTE? By what authority, UNLESS IT IS BY BEING SAME, can one truly know what is, and what is not, abhorrent, annoying, detestable, foul, reprehensible, repugnant, repulsive, unpleasant, vile, and obnoxious? Who among us, Betsy and James, fits this description WELL ENOUGH to serve as the true maven, moderator, and magistrate of obnoxiousness? I offer my pro bono counsel to any and all who, in this public forum, have been discriminated against, on the basis of obnoxiousness. Thank you.

Keyrock

Cave

No one is claiming qualification, save you.

I think that's his point, the beastly devil ~

And most likely why his kind offer is made pro bono.

You know how these lawyers are!

(Caveman, I might be willing to retain your services)

A heartfelt apology

My dear Jimmy. My earlier remarks were not intended to offend or challenge in any way your authority as governor, speaker of the house, county commissioner, city manager, World Wrestling Federation consultant, MLB batting coach, PTA president, and chairman of the national advisory counsel on obnoxiousness and rude behavior on the World Wide Web. I apologize, and may I hold the door for you. Thank you.

Keyrock