Love the sinner

That's the problem. This is a follow on post to gregflynn's Misanthropy on the Mall; yet another of my long winded comments that just got too big for it's breeches.

The thing about the men who lead rallies like the verbal gay-bash-fest yesterday in Raleigh is that they don't have the first stitch of love or care for anyone in them. Gregflynn is absolutely right about that. Not one bit of their goal is about love or helping gays. They lay every problem in this nation and even in other nations at the feet of those who do not believe exactly like them. Gay, straight, whatever. As W would say,

They hate us for our freedoms.

I can't speak to the followers of these men. I know some of them personally -- the followers that is. I could never call them bad people. They are just people. Its not an excuse, but a man's need to feel a part of a group and a woman's need to feel safe can and does cause people to make really piss poor decisions. They may indeed really think they're helping with some odd sort of tough love to ostracize and condemn their fellow human beings. Still, that doesn't change the fact that one day their children's children will be ashamed of these pictures in their history books.

However, the men who lead these sorts of movements -- like the "let's all gang up on the gays" movement -- are the bad seeds. The very worst among them is a man who would dare claim philosophical kinship to a Lion among men like William Wilberforce. These men are not focused on helping anyone, lifting anyone or freeing anyone. All they want is power. Little men get power when they can convince others that there is an enemy to fight. So they tear down and denigrate and demonize to make themselves seem powerful and strong.

But have you ever noticed the common thread through the history books? These types only ever pick on the weakest in the bunch. A hundred years ago that was African Americans. A hundred years before that it was American Indians. Before that it was women. In Martin Luther's day it was anyone who wanted to excercise freedom of thought or belief. The 'others' are always smaller groups ... weaker groups ... easy prey. These bullies always pick on the easy prey. These men are not Lions. They are hyenas. They are opportunists and cowards. I feel no conflict about them. I have no respect for them. They deserve no respect.

But those whom they mislead cause me some confusion. Because you see ... those are my family and friends. Love the sinner? That's just a crock. Even the people who recite that line know in their gut its a total crock.

A Christian cannot HATE who someone is and still treat them with justice, grace and mercy as Christ commanded christians to do. Period. Its a crock. Its just a word game. Likewise, an American can't impose their religious views on others and still claim to believe in freedom of religion like all good Americans are supposed to believe. Period. Its a crock. Its just a word game.

I stand with T.J. on this. Keep the Church out of the state. The state will return the favor by keeping out of the Church.

Or, tax the bloody hell out of 'em. Gift tax rate. And the state gets to set diversity goals for every church, define the cirriculum for their schools and fine them when they don't meet their goals and standards.

No? Then lets just keep it simple. Keep the Church out of the state. That means that laws are not written to follow Church edict. They are written to maintain safety, freedom and fairness in a civil society.

Now, close your eyes and imagine you're in the middle of the woods, and the world is your peaceful oyster. ;)

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Comments

"vote added"

well said.

Draft Brad Miller -- NC Sen ActBlue :::Petition

"Keep the Faith"

Rec'd as well

Very nice

Robin Hayes lied. Nobody died, but thousands of folks lost their jobs.



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Vote Democratic! The ass you save may be your own.

Most excellent.

Another recommend.

Thanks y'all.

Couldn't sleep last night until I got it out, so I'm glad it works. :)

"They took all the trees and put them in a tree museum Then they charged the people a dollar 'n a half just to see 'em. Don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you've got till it's gone? They paved paradise and put up a parking lot."

Most definitely Rec'd!

This is so very well said Leslie. OK to cut and paste parts of it to my blog with link back here and attributions? There are so many lte's in our little home town paper that need this as an answer. Loved it.....and your kitty!

No matter that patriotism is too often the refuge of scoundrels. Dissent, rebellion, and all-around hell-raising remain the true duty of patriots.

Progressive Discussions

Its all yours, Mo!

Have at it. :)

"They took all the trees and put them in a tree museum Then they charged the people a dollar 'n a half just to see 'em. Don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you've got till it's gone? They paved paradise and put up a parking lot."

Thanks Leslie....

No, you are too kind...no you

No matter that patriotism is too often the refuge of scoundrels. Dissent, rebellion, and all-around hell-raising remain the true duty of patriots.

Progressive Discussions

Leslie

Thanks for writing this. If I articulated everything I thought and felt about the rally and the implications I'd still be writing it. I chose to be evocative in the hope that a discussion such as this would ensue as soon as possible.

i know

some scenes just don't allow themselves to be disected in a linear fashion. Fred Smith standing in front of a crowd of people, demanding the removal of rights from native born red-blooded taxpaying American citizens and comparing himself to William Wilberforce probably falls into that category. Its truly mindbending.

Thanks for going to that rally, Greg. You did the hard work. You opened the floor and lit a fire under the conversation. Its one whose time has come. I'm just sick and tired of people using their faith to defend their "haughty eyes and lying tongues".

From Proverbs 6

16 There are six things which the LORD hates,
Yes, seven which are an abomination to Him:
17 Haughty eyes, a lying tongue,
And hands that shed innocent blood,
18 A heart that devises wicked plans,
Feet that run rapidly to evil,
19 A false witness who utters lies,
And one who spreads strife among brothers.

"They took all the trees and put them in a tree museum Then they charged the people a dollar 'n a half just to see 'em. Don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you've got till it's gone? They paved paradise and put up a parking lot."

Thanks for the inspiration

First Greg, and now you, Leslie, have inspired me to take action with folks on this issue. The Party's stand on civil rights is probably the main reason I'm blue. And I know this is a political hotbutton right now, but it pales in comparison to what our forebears had to stand up to with racial debate in this country.

War is over if you want it.

Love Worked Where Discipline Failed

Co-sponsors of the Senate "Defense of Marriage" bill Eddie Goodall and Andrew Brock at Tuesday's rally are oblivious to the inscription on the wall behind them:

Love worked where discipline failed


From a description of the Education Wall:

So many white men in one place

Makes you wonder how many of them have cheated on their wives. How many have divorced? How many lie to their spouses? There are so many things that threaten a healthy marriage, but the two gay men living next door aren't among them.



***************************
Vote Democratic! The ass you save may be your own.

Nobody

Nobody has EVER made a compelling argument to support the charge that the state legitimizing gay relationships by allowing marriage, civil unions or any other legal vehicle threatens the sanctity of marriage.

It starts with a false premise---marriage has no sanctity in an of itself.
My marriage only has as much sanctity as my wife and I put into it. And, judging by divorce rates, adultery rates, and all sorts of other problems, I've always wondered jokingly, like Bill Maher, why the hell gay people would want to join heterosexuals in this institution.

But we all know it's not really about that. It's about pissing on people who are different. In today's society, you get shouted down for being a racial bigot, so these people have moved BACK to demonizing immigrants---but that only goes so far because the same people gain from illegally employing them. So, almost out of default, they smash those who dare to leave the closet door open.

War is over if you want it.

That picture is chilling.

It feels like a haunting, with a strong wafting scent of forebodeing to look at those men all gathered to defend their heritage ... their way of life ... society's social fabric.

I look at their self satisfied faces and hauty eyes and I can't get Tim Tyson's report on the Wilmington race riots out of my head. The forebodeing is strong. The recounts of rally's across the state back a hundred years ago -- and the words of supposed leaders who were only concerned for the heritage and way of life they felt was being stomped on by blacks and whites managing life in a NC town as equals. It was a ridiculous senseless fear; we see that now. But back then it drove men to kill for no reason other than to maintain a social structure that made them the defacto leaders in their small worlds.

Today, we see pictures of smiling white men in front of a burned out newspaper office in Wilmington and feel complete and utter disgust. Yet too many people cannot connect the philosophical dots and realize that tomorrow, our grandchildren's children will look at these picture of these smiling white men and feel exactly the same digust.

Protecting society's social fabric from marriage equality for gays will make about as much sense to our grandchildren as protecting society's social fabric from racial equality for blacks makes to us now.

"They took all the trees and put them in a tree museum Then they charged the people a dollar 'n a half just to see 'em. Don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you've got till it's gone? They paved paradise and put up a parking lot."

Thank you Leslie

I've invited them all to read Greg's diary with pics and yours too. Then asked them to come back to my blog and tell me how this bigoted marriage act protects my marriage. :)

No matter that patriotism is too often the refuge of scoundrels. Dissent, rebellion, and all-around hell-raising remain the true duty of patriots.

Progressive Discussions

Excellent

Hope you get a conversation going!

"They took all the trees and put them in a tree museum Then they charged the people a dollar 'n a half just to see 'em. Don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you've got till it's gone? They paved paradise and put up a parking lot."

Called2Complain on Bill LuMaye this PM

Newsflash from Called2Action:

Friends,

Please pray and then tune into WPTF AM 680 at 4:00pm today. I will be on the show to discuss the marriage amendment battle and the hypocrisy of our lawmakers who haven't let the proposed amendment out of committee for a vote for so many years. I'll be joined by Sen. Fred Smith and Pastor Ron Baitty who organized Tuesday's massive rally in downtown Raleigh! Please call in and voice your opinion on this matter. We need to continue sending the General Assembly a strong, clear message that the people of North Carolina want to protect marriage!

We must pray and then we must stand.

In His Service,

Steve Noble, Chairman

Call in with some Fredly advice if you have the time:

Bill LuMaye

919-860-WPTF (9783) or 1-800-662-7979

billlumaye@wptfmail.com

Anybody listen to this?

Curious to hear if anyone with some sense got through on the call or email line.

"They took all the trees and put them in a tree museum Then they charged the people a dollar 'n a half just to see 'em. Don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you've got till it's gone? They paved paradise and put up a parking lot."

I emailed but no acknowledgement

I'd like to know what was said too.

No matter that patriotism is too often the refuge of scoundrels. Dissent, rebellion, and all-around hell-raising remain the true duty of patriots.

Progressive Discussions

Done.

And better for it. Thanks.

"They took all the trees and put them in a tree museum Then they charged the people a dollar 'n a half just to see 'em. Don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you've got till it's gone? They paved paradise and put up a parking lot."