Dr. Larry Burk Endorses BJ Lawson

The following was taken from Dr. Lawson's Website:

Friends and former colleagues,

I went on the Triangle Farm Tour this weekend and visited the Piedmont Biofuels Coop, a sustainable farm in Moncure, NC, linked to the local biodiesel pioneers at biofuels.coop. Then today by happy synchronicity, I got an email from BJ Lawson, one of my former Duke med students who is running for Congress in the 4th District, featuring an interview he did with Lyle Estill, VP of Stuff at Piedmont Biofuels and author of Small is Possible: Life in a Local Economy.

Both Lyle and BJ emphasize the need for a vital and sustainable local economy that will provide “Hometown Security” for all of us during these times of turmoil on the national level. That would be the opposite of the National Bio and Agro Defense Facility that his opponent David Price is advocating bringing to Butner as Chairman of the Appropriations Subcommittee for the Department of Homeland Security.

So, progressives wake up and vote your conscience, not your party this November. Yes, it is possible to split your ticket and vote for both Obama and Lawson. I made the radical move of switching my registration from Democratic to Republican to vote for him in the NC Primary where he won 70% of the vote against a hardcore neocon opponent. BJ bases his platform strictly on the Constitution, and he is more of a peace candidate than most Democrats in Congress now.

Liberty is Priceless,
Larry

Posted by Ray McKinnon, Democrat and Field Organizer for Lawson for Congress

Comments

I'm not in the 4th District,

so I won't be casting my vote for Price or BJ. But if I was, I'd like a little more clarity on BJ's opinion about abortion. Considering he's a huge Ron Paul supporter, the absence of this discussion in his campaign is a little odd. I did find this dismissal of evolution though:

Like Rep. Paul, I also graduated from Duke Medical School. From anatomy to physiology, the diversity and magnificent complexity of life is astonishing. Statistically speaking, what is the likelihood of all this spontaneous order evolving out of the primordial soup, when my three kids can’t keep their rooms clean? If one respects physics as a foundation of science, entropy typically has the upper hand over spontaneous order. This article (thanks to Lew Rockwell) is a great summary of some of the problems with evolution as the sole answer to how life began.

For me to address this question, I first have to ask what you mean when you say “evolution”. Is “evolution” the all-encompassing process by which life began and reached its present observable state? If you define evolution as how life began and then evolved into its current state, I don’t believe it either. The evidence just isn’t there.

If, however, you define evolution as an ongoing process by which organisms adapt and change both spontaneously and in response to their environment… now that’s a definition of “evolution” that is supported by evidence.

So how did life begin, and was God in charge? I don’t believe science can tell us. All science can do is describe the world around us. We can describe it from astronomic to subatomic levels, but we’re simply describing what we observe. At the deepest, most fundamental level, assuming that the “Big Bang” did occur, can you prove to me that there isn’t a loving God who whispered “let there be light” at that moment? Either way, it’s a matter of faith.

No it's not, Dr. Lawson, it's a matter of science. Combining your advocacy for free market solutions to public school problems, along with your (apparent) belief in intelligent design, equates to scientific regression as far as I'm concerned. Now, about abortions...

And Pastor McKinnon, I don't expect you to ignore your religious beliefs, but waving the "I'm a Democrat" flag to garner support for an anti-government, free market Libertarian posing as a Republican is already confusing enough. Please list the Democratic principles you do (still) believe in.

With all due respect, scharrison...

I am not waving the "I'm a Democrat flag" to garner support for BJ. Is it completely inconceivable to you that I could really be a Democrat, a Pastor, agree with intelligent design, disagree with abortion (with exceptions being the life/health of the mother) (especially late-term abortions) and support BJ? You see, there is a banner that we have waved for years within this party of being the big tent. I have voted democratically since I was able to vote. Here is a link to my personal blog that I write sporadically in. You will see that I have written a lot about things that are considered Democratic.

Here is a list of the democratic principle that I believe in (not sure why you have "still" in parenthesis...):

I am a firm supporter of civil rights and liberties for all Americans (regardless of religion, race, sexual orientation, etc.)
I support hate crime legislation (which includes homosexuals)
I support immediate withdrawal from Iraq
I support impeachment of Bush, Cheyney and Rice
I support equal pay for equal work
I am firmly anti-death penalty (and abortion for the same reasons...)
I support a responsible path to citizenship for "illegal" residents
I support banning drilling in ANWR
I support stronger regulations to ensure that we are good stewards of the environment
I support the Constitution

There are others and I find it utterly ridiculous that I would have to justify my "blueness" to you or any other person on this blog. I am a Democrat but I am NOT a lemming. I am not going to support someone simply because he has a "D" behind his name. I have stated my reasons in various other posts and blogs why I am supporting BJ over David Price. You, may choose to be someone who votes strictly based upon the party, but I like to do this crazy thing of considering the candidate.

Oh, you can call me Ray. I am not so formal nor dogmatic as to have people use titles :-)

I hope this clarifies a bit.

~Ray McKinnon

~Ray McKinnon

I'm not involved in this, not even reading what happened above.

I agree with almost all you said in this comment, except intelligent design. By intelligent design, do you mean evolution behind which is God? Just curious what people mean by ID.

"The striking difference between me and my opponent is that I live in North Carolina and my husband can vote for me."
- Sen. Kay Hagan

Jesus Swept ticked me off. Too short. I loved the characters and then POOF it was over.
-me

Yes, Rob...

I am no apologists, but I do believe that there was a Creator for the created.

~Ray McKinnon

~Ray McKinnon

Just asking if that includes evolution.

"The striking difference between me and my opponent is that I live in North Carolina and my husband can vote for me."
- Sen. Kay Hagan

Jesus Swept ticked me off. Too short. I loved the characters and then POOF it was over.
-me

If by evolution...

You mean that things change and adapt over time to its environment, then yes I would include it. If evolution means the process by which all life began, I would say no.

Hope that clarifies a bit...

~Ray McKinnon

~Ray McKinnon

The reason I asked this

There are others and I find it utterly ridiculous that I would have to justify my "blueness" to you or any other person on this blog.

is because I know many of BJ's ideas run counter to what you believe in:

"I support banning drilling in ANWR"

Regardless of where the energy ends up, oil and gas that we recover here does benefit us economically. Every barrel of oil that we recover domestically will reduce our trade deficit — either it is consumed here and reduces a barrel of imported oil, or it is exported and contributes positively to our trade balance. Profitable companies generate tax revenue on these transactions, as well.

The Republicans can’t guarantee that lifting a drilling ban will lower gas prices. With 1.1 billion Indians and 1.3 billion Chinese buying new cars, growing global demand makes lower prices pretty unlikely. But if there is any truth to Peak Oil, we must aggressively locate all available domestic sources — not for “energy independence”, but simply for survival during the transition.

"I support stronger regulations to ensure that we are good stewards of the environment"

We need to let individual states pursue and experiment with innovative solutions to the issues of our day. If we have to wait for a full national consensus on every single environmental issue before acting, we will continually squander resources and stifle initiative.

As your Congressman, I will:

* Restrain unelected federal bureaucracies that micromanage and regulate. Instead, government should set standards, potentially measure results, and allow private enterprise find the best way to meet agreed upon standards.

"I support hate crime legislation (which includes homosexuals)"

I couldn't find anything from BJ on this, but here is his main man Ron Paul on the subject:

Last week, the House of Representatives acted with disdain for the Constitution and individual liberty by passing HR 1592, a bill creating new federal programs to combat so-called “hate crimes.” The legislation defines a hate crime as an act of violence committed against an individual because of the victim’s race, religion, national origin, gender, sexual orientation, gender identity, or disability. Federal hate crime laws violate the Tenth Amendment’s limitations on federal power. Hate crime laws may also violate the First Amendment guaranteed freedom of speech and religion by criminalizing speech federal bureaucrats define as “hateful.”

"I support equal pay for equal work"

BJ doesn't have anything on his site about this (that I could find), but he's talked here before about "mutually beneficial contracts" between employers and workers, which pretty much sidesteps the idea of equal pay.

"I am a firm supporter of civil rights and liberties for all Americans (regardless of religion, race, sexual orientation, etc.)"

And I am too, but the Libertarian approach to civil liberties would ensure that civil rights for some would suffer. While the Federal government has overstepped its bounds on some issues that should have been left up to the individual states, without Federal mandates dealing with civil rights, millions of Americans would be second-class citizens, even today. A black man in Mississippi has the same rights as a black man in New York, and we can thank the Federal government for that. But if Ron Paul had his way, the Civil Rights Act of 1964 would be repealed.

Sorry Charlie

With all due respect, this is bullshit:

progressives wake up and vote your conscience, not your party this November.

My conscience doesn't allow me to consider helping any Republican get his or her dirty hands on another seat in Congress.

And by the way, what's the point of bringing Lyle Estill into this? Are you trying to imply that he endorses BJ? Does he endorse BJ? The linkage between the local economy/food movement and the proposed Butner facility is ... how can I say this charitably ... non-freakin-existent.

This Lawson campaign rhetoric is starting to sound like the baloney coming out of the McCain Palin campaign.

Which brings me to my final point. Who is BJ supporting for President?

Doubts about Dole?

BJ screwing up a free lunch?

This Lawson campaign rhetoric is starting to sound like the baloney coming out of the McCain Palin campaign.

Which brings me to my final point. Who is BJ supporting for President?* James

Yep! Screwing up big time! It appears that BJ has kiss up to the very enemy that ban him and his campaign from the so-called hotest neo-con retard site in North Carolina. I suspect he won't tell you at this point or do what Ron Paul has done, Endorse a Wild eye funny preacher in the Constitutional party which makes sense like Sara Palin going to 5 community colleges in 6 years to find the right College. The best thing BJ can do is say that he wants to destroy the Republican Party for good and get involved with a real independent party in the future made of real progressives and other like minded individuals seeking real constitutional rights

http://katysconservativecorner.typepad.com/katy/2008/09/page/2/

MaxTheDog2...

I don't agree with all of your comments on here, but you always have really funny and catchy subject lines :-)

~Ray McKinnon

~Ray McKinnon

raymack27278............

raymack27278
I don't agree with all of your comments on here, but you always have really funny and catchy subject lines :-) *Ray McKinnon

I don't care what anybody thinks or whether they agree with my comments dude. I am the complete total professional when it comes to inside politics and how to screw up the enemies of Liberty. If you really think I am funny, than ship me all of your gold and property along with your first born for the Slave market in Dubia.

By the way! When are you going to get off your lazy shiftless ass and join the real revolution?

MaxThe Dog2...the gold and property...

Are forthcoming, but, alas, the firstborn will have to wait; the Mrs. and I are working on that one.

Tell me more about this real revolution...

~Ray McKinnon

~Ray McKinnon

It must be getting close to

It must be getting close to an election. It seems that all the principled folks of yesteryear are happy to line up and cheerlead for their respective side. A pity really, for a little moment in time I thought you guys actually were better than those on the other side. I must be more naive than I thought.

As for your concerns let’s put aside the petty party politics and talk about something important. How about David Price's vote for sanctions that led to the death of a minimum 1/2 million and maybe as much as 1.5 million Iraqi children. An event that David Bonior said was "Infanticide masquerading as policy". The same David Bonior who was John Edwards right hand man and who is now a senior advisor to whom I hope will be President Barack Obama. Did you condemn this at the time? Did you say how wrong Madeline Albright was to say these deaths were justified? or did you ignore it because it happened under a Democratic administration?

How about the Patriot Act that David Price voted for. A piece of legislation that many have openly condemned Bush for(and rightly so) but something he had a lot of help pushing through by gutless congressmen like our own David Price.

What about the vote that give the current village idiot in charge of this country the right to arbitrarily decide which country was a terrorist nation and allow the US to preemptively attack it. You know, the bill that David Price voted for.

How about David Price's cozying up to homeland security not only to try and bring NBAF here. How about the project to study terrorism using the triangle's Muslim population as guinea pigs.
How about the consistent support by David Price for the illegal occupation of the West Bank, Golan Heights and the siege of Gaza. How about his refusal to say or do anything to put forward any condemnation of the Israeli govt's attacks on civilians in Lebanon when a coalition of Jews, Muslims and Christians pleaded with him to say anything.

How about his consistent vote to fund the occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan for nearly 7 years.

Of course none of this matters because that small (d) beside his name blinds you to his responsibility to be a good representative. He can do no wrong because he is a Democrat.

I can understand if you hate BJ Lawson and would never consider voting for him. Please do not however expect others to be so easily misled or naive to think that David Price would be a far better alternative. Some of us actually read his voting record and some of us actually look at the warmongers who increasingly donate to him. Some of us have actually sat in his office and repeatedly have him lie to us and then go to Washington and vote the opposite of what he said he would do.

BJ Lawson will get my vote and if he doesn’t deliver then whoever is running in 2010 will get my vote. It’s called holding your elected officials accountable. If you guys had done this with David Price for 22 years I wouldn’t be writing this just now. It seems it’s not just goppers who follow this party over principle line.

wasalaam

Marc

Let's talk about principles

See, when you come here and try to paint David Price as being a warmonger responsible for the invasion and occupation of Iraq, you're demonstrating that, just like many other Republicans in this election cycle, blatantly lying is an acceptable tactic.

Not only did David Price vote against authorization for the Iraq War, only six Republicans (out of 223) joined him in that effort. Additionally, Price has voted consistently to end our involvement in Iraq and voted against the Military Commissions Act.

I can understand if you hate BJ Lawson and would never consider voting for him.

I don't hate BJ, I like BJ. But unlike Price who's got thousands of votes for you to sift through and complain about, we've got no BJ Lawson voting record to look at. But since he has aligned himself with Ron Paul, there are some suppositions we can make: I would probably end up favoring some of BJ's votes, but the majority of them I wouldn't.

He'd like to eliminate a lot of the Federal government, including the Department of Education. He'd (probably) support a reversal of Roe v Wade and let the states decide about the legality of abortion, but how about Ron Paul's "life begins at conception" legislation? If he supported that as well, it would effectively make abortion illegal, regardless of what individual states wanted to do.

You are free to support BJ as much as you want to, but whiny bullshit like this:

He can do no wrong because he is a Democrat.

proves you don't know a damn thing about BlueNC. We've been highly critical of Democrats who did x or y we didn't agree with, and David Price hasn't gotten a pass on that. But don't expect us to gobble up semi-clever bullshit posted by Republican supporters, 'cause it ain't gonna happen, pal.

Hey Scharrison, I am not

Hey Scharrison,

I am not lying. David Price has consistently voted for using force and certainly not consistently spoke out against the use of force. Check his voting record; I don’t expect you to take my word for it. The only two conflicts where David Price voted against were both Iraq wars. He then voted to fund both of these wars.

David Price voted for HJR 64 which specifically hands over congressional power to George W Bush to declare preemptive wars. You know that thing called the "Bush doctrine" and i quote "the President is authorized to use all necessary and appropriate force against those nations, organizations, or persons he determines planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001, or harbored such organizations or persons, in order to prevent any future acts of international terrorism against the United States by such nations, organizations or persons. In short all Bush has to say is they conspired in regards to 9/11 and everything is fine.

As for my whiny comment let me explain it. You say it’s wrong to support someone who has no record of doing anything wrong in preference to someone who has 22 years of being on the wrong side of many of these issues. So you surmise how BJ will vote in preference to actually holding David Price's feet to the fire. Why is BJ Lawson being held to a much higher standard than you hold the elected representative of the 4th District? Oh I get it one is a Democrat and one is a Republican. Be honest, at least with yourself, if not to me.

As for the semi-clever bullshit comment :) well that was funny. David Price consistently has gotten a pass on here for years. Any criticism of him is attacked and when people do bring up genuine things like above its deflected onto other issues. I posted six points and criticism I have of David Price and you deflected one. You said that David Price did not vote for the Iraq war. I never said he did. I said he has consistently voted to fund, which he has. To end a war you vote to end the funding. To continue it you support its funding. You conveniently forgot the other 5 points because you know I am telling the truth. Don’t let that get in the way though :)

For the record I am not a Republican nor am I a Democrat. Both of you are far to right wing for me :) My politics are defined by where I come from and not where I live. I have sat with many progressive friends of mine over the years talking about the lack of principled responsible leadership in the district that is not for sale to the highest bidder. A congressman who will sit in his office and tell you one thing and then go to Washington and vote either the way of his party or the way of special interest. You are right; BJ Lawson has not passed this test. How could he has never been in office. What I do know is that David Price has failed it and been given a free ride for doing so by folks like yourself for the last 22 years. There has never been a viable alternative to Price coming from the Republicans until know. Lets see what happens on November 4th.

I am not asking you to tell me what is wrong with BJ Lawson. I am asking you to defend David Prices record on the points I made. I respect James Protzmans answer, I think he is wrong , but at least he is bluntly honest.

Regards

Marc

Price getting a pass here?

I can tell you that his staff certainly doesn't think so. The anatomy of capitulation. Iraq war.

It's not about giving a pass or not. It's about the overall balance and record. Price has done more good than damage, by a wide margin. Looking ahead to a certain Democratic majority in the House, BJ would be non-existent for all intents and purposes.



_____________________________________

Doubts about Dole?

It was ironic that you post

It was ironic that you post a link to something where i was the most critical of Price :) I think my position on him is well documented on here. Of course his staff dont like any criticism on here. They expect you all to line up and be nice little Democrats. Right or truth doesnt matter. Tribal affiliations do.

In regards to Price doing more good than bad i disagree. An effective Democratic Congressman from this district should be able to do all the good you like and be able to speak out consistently and be more aggresive. David Price has failed in this consistently.

As to BJ being non existent in the house you obviously havent met BJ Lawson. I dont think its in his DNA just to roll over. He certainly didnt do it with the GOP in the 4th district. David Price has been non existent for 20 out of the last 22 years. I went to hear Price and Brad Miller (who i like by the way) at the Western Wake Democrat townhall last Saturday in Apex. Not only did Brad Miller answer 75% of Prices questions, he even had to correct David Prices mistakes. Price bloviated and hardly answered any questions asked to him by Democrats. When asked about NBAF Brad Miller (who came out against it after initially supporting it) had to basically defend David Prices decision, even though Brad doesnt agree with it.

It was actually embarassing.

Marc...if you think the best way to continue being

allowed to post here is to insult your hosts I encourage you to think again.

Regards,

Betsy



***************************
Vote Democratic! The ass you save may be your own.

Betsey Muse, censor, much?

Betsey,
How very Orwellian of you. Let me get this straight, if we disagree of peeve our "host", we will be disallowed to post here?

~Ray McKinnon

~Ray McKinnon

Yes

You will be banned, but not simply for disagreeing. While most insults must rise to the level of being intolerable obnoxious and it certainly must be more than a one-time thing, I think it is always wise to warn people before they reach that level, don't you?

Posting on BlueNC isn't a God given right. If asking someone to avoid insulting his hosts is Orwellian...then....oh well.

BlueNC is and always has been a haven for those of us who lean left in North Carolina. While we allow people on here who disagree with us, we do not have to pay for the server space for you to write against candidates and issues we support. You should start your own blog and pay for it yourself. We pay thousands each year for hosting and you think it is OK for you to come into our "living room" and insult us? Very nice. Very nice.

My name is spelled Betsy.



***************************
Vote Democratic! The ass you save may be your own.

Oh get off it, Betsy,

I "lean left in NC", but because I disagree with David Price I am not welcomed? Orwellian...

~Ray McKinnon

~Ray McKinnon

You get off it, Ray

It's an election year. Use some common sense. Don't do blog posts supporting Republicans on a site for progressives. Set up your own blog. It's that simple. I'm not inclined to pay for you to blog about a Republican. It's that simple. You crossed the line.



***************************
Vote Democratic! The ass you save may be your own.

Ray...you get to choose

I asked that you not write blog posts supporting Republicans. Why do you expect me to pay with my time and money for you to blog in support of Republicans. I really want to know?

It's a simple request. You abide by it and we're fine. You don't want to abide by it, then you need to accept responsibility for your actions and the consequences of your actions. It's a pretty simple concept.



***************************
Vote Democratic! The ass you save may be your own.

Pretty Tough

Republicans aren't so big on accepting responsibility. They talk about how important it is for others to do so, but thats where it stops.

"Keep the Faith"

"Keep the Faith"

I am NOT a Republican!

I am supporting a candidate who espouses many (but certainly not all) of my democratic views. Some of my top concerns are civil liberties. How can that be wrong, Betsy?

Blue South, please don't insult me by calling me a Republican; I am not.

~Ray McKinnon

~Ray McKinnon

I did not say that was wrong, Ray

I said that expecting me or anyone else to foot the bill for you to promote a Republican on our site is wrong. Two totally different things.



***************************
Vote Democratic! The ass you save may be your own.

I was stabbed twice for

I was stabbed twice for fighting against skin head fascists in the 80s. I went on my first union march when i was 7 years old with my grandfather who fought against the nazi's in Europe and on his return he fought against a Conservative govt for socialized medicine for the working man. My greatgrandfather was part of Red Clydeside and was friends with John McLean . I know all the words of the Red Flag and the Internationale :) I dont lean left. I am left.

In regards to this forum i would gladly pay to help it keep going, show me where and i will donate today.

In regards to insulting you or anyone else on here i am sorry i dont think i did. I also did not condemn any issues you support unless your pro-war, against civil liberties and think its ok to kill little Iraqi children. I condemned the voting record of a 22 year incumbent. One who sided with the bankers to make it more difficult for poor people to declare bankruptcy and walk away from debt and who according to reports will probably vote to ensure these very same bankers get to walk away from their responsibilitys.

I am sorry for spelling your name wrong. You have however made my point that many folks on here despise everything with an R next to their name but will threaten to ban folks who question anyone with a D.

regards

Marc

Marc, Good heavens

drama, drama, drama.

I did not threaten to ban you because you disagreed with a Democrat. Please don't make stuff up. I informed you that you insulted me with something you said and that at BlueNC we ban people for being intolerably obnoxious and I was giving you fair warning. I found what you wrote insulting. I did not threaten to ban you, but I did warn you that the possibility exists for certain behaviors.

You may support whomever you choose. You can even write about it in the comments, however if you can't discuss it without tossing out comments like the one I quoted you might find yourself unwelcome. I asked Ray not to write blog posts supporting Republicans. I think common sense should have helped him figure that out.



***************************
Vote Democratic! The ass you save may be your own.

Of course i am dramatic, I

Of course i am dramatic, I am Scottish :)

I think we have crossed wires here or something :)

BJ lawson on many issues is far more progressive than David Price. I dislike the viewpoints of David Price for many reasons, which i have specified. I do not dislike him because i am a partisan Republican, because i am not. I dislike his voting record on issues that are very important to me and to many very left leaning progressive Democrats.

I disliked the viewpoint of Jesse Helms. I didnt just start to dislike him the day he became a Republican. I disliked his viewpoints when he was a member of the Democrat party. Its not all black and white and i am sorry if my criticism of David Price was somehow taken as meant to be a criticism of all Democratic voters, It is not.

I am however critical of people who vote for someone because of affiliation and do not judge the individual on their viewpoint but seek to tar them all with the same brush. It has led to the problems we have in this country today.

regards

Marc

Marc, this is what I find insulting

Of course his staff dont like any criticism on here. They expect you all to line up and be nice little Democrats. Right or truth doesnt matter. Tribal affiliations do.

David Price's staff has never once intervened at this blog. Not once. Nobody tells us how to vote. Right and truth does matter and you aren't on that side right now.

I don't have anything against BJ, but the line has been crossed. This is a blog for progressives and other left-leaning folk in North Carolina. It's one thing for BJ to come here and introduce himself. It is entirely another for his supporters to set up camp and work against a candidate most if not all of us support. Entering a conversation, debating the issues, giving a different view - there's a line between that and running an all-out campaign for a Republican on a site for progressives. Hopefully common sense will tell you where that line should be drawn.



***************************
Vote Democratic! The ass you save may be your own.

Hey Betsy this was in reply

Hey Betsy this was in reply to what scharrison said:

The implication is that Price's staff dont like what was said about David Price in the link Scharrison quoted.

Marc

Price getting a pass here?
Submitted by James Protzman on Thu, 09/25/2008 - 1:50pm.

I can tell you that his staff certainly doesn't think so. The anatomy of capitulation. Iraq war.

It's not about giving a pass or not. It's about the overall balance and record. Price has done more good than damage, by a wide margin. Looking ahead to a certain Democratic majority in the House, BJ would be non-existent for all intents and purposes.

Marc said what?

David Price voted for HJR 64 which specifically hands over congressional power to George W Bush to declare preemptive wars.

Yeah, that was a real controversial bill you got there. It passed the House by a vote of 419-1, and that one nay was not cast by Ron Paul. He didn't just skip the vote, he actually voted for the resolution.

So...you're trying to imply that BJ would have voted against HJR 64? Really? When the only one who voted against it was a Democrat (Lee), and the extreme anti-war, anti-interventionist Ron Paul (who BJ adores) voted for it?

Dude. Fresh air. Go get some before irreversible cerebral atrophy sets in.

Did BJ vote for it? You cant

Did BJ vote for it? You cant play this game both ways. You cant chastise the man for having no voting record and then read his mind and say he would have voted a certain way. Knowing BJ Lawson pretty well i can tell you that he would not hand over congressional power to declare war to one individual regardless of the circumstances. It goes against all he believes in. This is the same argument used against Obama. That if he was in the senate he would have voted for the Iraq war. Moot point considering.

As for Ron Paul, he is not BJ Lawson. Even though yourself and your strange bedfellows, the neocons, try to paint him as such.

So you believe the bill that was the birth of the Bush doctrine and preemptive war is irrelevent and not controversial? This is the very bill used by the neocons to lead us down the path of our disastrous foreign policy. Now if you argued that all 419 people who voted for it should be fired i would applaud you. However you argue they should be excused, which to be honest is pretty scary.

Marc

PS: guilt by association is the same mindset that says that Barack Obama can sit in a church pew with Rev Wright and therefore thinks exactly like him.

So, scharrison,

Because there was only one leader to stand and say that this crap was wrong you say that it is excusable. I wish that it was my Representative, David, who had the wherewithal to take such a principled stance. This is exactly my point and one of the main reasons why I support BJ Lawson. I honestly believe that had he been in Congress when House Joint Resolution 64 came to the floor for a vote he would have voted it down. BJ will not take his cues on how to vote for Ron Paul, he will take it from the Constitution. David should have done the same thing.

~Ray McKinnon

~Ray McKinnon

Of course they're not

My point was: if a person like Ron Paul (who sees a danger to liberty in even the most innocuous of bills) voted for this, that means he (at the time) perceived no possible future Executive power excesses would stem from it. Seriously. He's got a fricking tinfoil hatrack in his office festooned with emergency back-ups in case government agents steal the one he's wearing.

If he didn't see anything harmful in this bill, then it's crazy to accuse David Price of negligence for signing the thing.

I disagree Ron Paul and

I disagree Ron Paul and David Price were both wrong. The one saving grace for Paul is he then voted against everything else.

The Democrat who voted against should be put in the highest pedestal in the land. :)

You can support BJ, but your party loyalty will be questioned...

Isn't that right, scharrison?

Because I am a Pastor and happen to support BJ, you questioned my democratic principles; that seem a bit contradictory...

Let me go on record (again) as saying that I am supporting (with finances and time), Senator Obama. The fact that I am supporting one Republican, has caused you to question whether I am a Dem, and frankly, that peeves me.

~Ray McKinnon

~Ray McKinnon

Stop being so bloody

Stop being so bloody principled and fall into the cheerleading section Pastor Ray.

***You must vote David Price because a small (R) next to your name denotes evil. However making decisions that should be called despicable is permitted if the small letter becomes a (D) :)***

Thanks Marc, I get it now...

Give me a "H-Y-P-O-C-R-I-T-I-C-A-L" because that is what I would be if I voted for David.
hypocritical
~Ray McKinnon

~Ray McKinnon

In answer to one of my questions above,

BJ appears to have about the same position as Ron Paul on abortion:

I believe that life begins at conception, and that the purpose of government is to protect life. We must recognize that there is a period of time during which we don't know if conception has occurred, so I believe "emergency contraception" is a moral issue between the patient and her doctor.

Given the controversy surrounding abortion, I believe decisions about abortion are best handled at a state and local level without blanket decisions from an overreaching federal judiciary.

As a matter of fact, that's correct

For me personally, abortion is a litmus test. If a candidate doesn't support abortion rights, he has zero chance of winning my vote no matter how heroic and capable he might be on a thousand other issues. Literally zero.

I consider abortion rights a pre-condition to everything else.

_____________________________________

Doubts about Dole?

That is fine James. My main

That is fine James. My main criticism of the Republicans with Abortion is that they will kill to defend the life of the foetus but dont want to do anything to defend the life and future of the baby. Abortion from my experience is a road that is taken when no other option is available. There is also a criticism that if abortion was done mostly by upper class rich white women it would be illegal tommorow, but thats for another day.

Moving onto a related question. David Price supported sanctions that murdered millions of 'born' babies in Iraq. Many Democrats condemned it including David Bonior. Many Democrats like Price sided with the administration and Madeline Albright who said the lifes of the Iraqi children were worth it. He supported Bill Clintons bombing of the Al Shifa pharmaceutical plant in Sudan which was the only provider of malaria and tuberculosis pills for the country of Sudan. This led to the death of 10s of thousands of Sudanese, many of them children.

So if you cant vote for BJ Lawson because of the abortion issue how could you in good consciense vote for David Price. I dont for one second think that you believe the lifes of little brown people are less valuable.

You will find when it comes to politicians i am very much an equal opportunity harasser of hypocrites regardsless of affiliations :)

No, my friend, upper class women of means

have always and will always be able to seek and have safe abortions, regardless of the laws. That was and is the reality.

It is the rest of us, the 90% of us American women, who may be able to scrounge a few hundred bucks from brothers and sisters and friends but would never be able to put together a couple grand to fly out of country or state to have a safe abortion, and those of us who don't have fathers/boyfriends with doctor friends who would end up suffering if our right to choose is taken away. That is the reality.

Let me just say that I respect and admire that at least you have a consistent "ethic of life", but I respectfully disagree on your apparent position that because you believe life begins at conception, that I must believe that as well when I do not.

"It is amazing what you can accomplish if you do not care who gets the credit." - Harry Truman

"They took all the trees and put them in a tree museum Then they charged the people a dollar 'n a half just to see 'em. Don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you've got till it's gone? They paved paradise and put up a parking lot."

I agree Leslie, Rich folks

I agree Leslie, Rich folks always get to do what they want somehow. Poor folks have to deal with the consequences. Never met a poor congressman either though :)

When it comes to abortion i believe that a woman should have a right to choose even though personally i disagree with Abortion. I dont walk in her shoes and cant. It should be an individual decision left up to her. What i would like to see is less of a partisan society that focuses less on whether Abortion is right or wrong and one that would work towards giving more options to people. The majority of people i know who have had terminated a pregnancy have done so through financial reasons. I personally find that very sad.

My other point was the right to life, the right to life after birth. To me its a matter of consciense. I could vote for a politician who was anti abortion as long as he wasnt a fervent frothing at the mouth theocrat that proposed alternatives at his tax dollars expense. I would not support his right to override the will of the American people who are pro choice. I find it difficult though to vote for a politician who knowing supports sanctions that kill's children and then disregards the consequence of his vote.

regards

Marc

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