Because I live downtown, I hopped on my bike and road to the Halifax Mall to check out "Americans for Prosperity's" Tea Party.
First, it was a pretty good crowd. Not huge, but polite. Probably around 2K. I wore a local city councilor T-shirt and no one talked to me or harassed me. When Obama was there, several times bigger, and Anti-War rallies in Raleigh were significantly larger, but not bad for 6 pm on a Wednesday.
It was not the most diverse lot. I saw 5 African Americans, 3 Indian people, no Hispanics, and only two teabags. (I think they got the message.) Most were middle age white, some young folks, but hey, they did not strike me as the elite of society, and I applaud that they took the time. I don't agree with much they support, (I mean it doesn't take a lot of political courage to oppose a tax increase,) but on occasion they make a point that makes sense, and we should always welcome dissent, and take a look.
Most of the Signs were about liberty, and taxed enough already, but "Waterboard Nancy Pelosi" could be seen as a little extreme.
Durham native and fox news head Mary Katharine Ham was witty, and funny. I always prefer Obama jokes to McCain jokes. She told a supposed demonstrive story about using parents credit card to go to Myrtle Beach, and then making excuse that everything is going to work out and something will come along to fix it in order to mock the current Administration's approach, but it seemed like the story may have been all too true. I mean the 80's and 90's certainly were driven by a lot of free money all around. It was not a stretch to see Ms. Ham and friends taking off sometime to Myrtle Beach on their parents Card. Probably though not fair for me to speculate so.
She did give some advice that frankly I think was a mistake. She encouraged everyone to call their lawmakers and say, "Is it hot enough yet?" Frankly, that is probably poor advice if you are wanting your point to be considered credible by a Legislator.
Joe, Joe, Joe. Joe the Plumber. He came out and largely did not disappoint those who had come to see him. He read a letter from his son of how proud he was, and that politicians are saying anything and we have to keep them on their toes. He also mentioned the plumbing tax. AFP tried to make a big deal about Senate Finance Committee proposal to start taxing some services so we start moving away form 30's based taxation of manufacturing, but AFP left out the tax cuts included in that proposal. Oh Well, they are trying to build an organization.
Anyway, the most ironic thing Joe said was that one thing he has learned is that Washington thrives on Drama. That Somali Pirates were to divert attention from Chris Dodd who should be in jail. The irony was that it is that "Drama" that Joe is playing on to probably earn a decent living. Who can blame him. I can't help but wonder though how much AFP paid him.
In closing, it was a wonderful evening for a protest. I'm glad people are participating in our system, I understand AFP trying to build a base, but it seems they have a ways to go before they can build any real coalition to be more than what they are.
Comments
Good report
I may be a little dense, what is AFP?
Just another Right Wing Think Tank!
Thats all! You've seen one you've seen a million!
Anthony D. Hall,
Fighting for Truth, Justice, Freedom and the American Way!
Americans for Prosperity.
Americans for Prosperity.
Art Pope ....
is Founding director and still a director - billionaire David Koch of Koch Industries is currently chair. Too bad the local media doesn't know how to use the internet to show public who these people really are.
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Americans_for_Prosperity
F-One
I never meant to say that the Conservatives are generally stupid. I meant to say that stupid people are generally Conservative. I believe that is so obviously and universally admitted a principle...
John Stuart Mill 1866
Thanks for the link!
All these Right Wing Groups are interconnected. I wish the Progressive Movement was more cohesive in its message maybe we could get some real legislation passed!
Anthony D. Hall,
Fighting for Truth, Justice, Freedom and the American Way!
It was really not my
It was really not my intention remain anyomous, but it has been pointed out I should stand by what I write. WhalerCane is my just online handle, but I am Perry Woods, a raleigh based democratic consultant. I should have mention also I went to see my nutty right wing friend Bill Lumaye. They cut him because of time and weather. We agree virtually on nothing, but he has me on his show every week on WPTF.com. Ususally Wed. at 5.
I understand my venue, so I just try and reduce the outrage where I can.
I usually try to tune in on Wednesdays
to hear you work the room, Perry. Thanks for bringing a bit of sanity to an otherwise insane broadcast. You do hold your own and then some. Kudos for gettin' dirty down in the trenches.
North Carolina. Turning the South Blue!
Thanks for the report, Perry
I had hoped we would hear something. I think the teabaggers are losing a bit of steam. Seriously, there are only so many programs you can cut before you start cutting the programs important to the anti-tax crowd. At some point they realize they gotta pay for it and if they aren't in charge it isn't necessarily their priorities that will carry the day. I guess they shouldn't have sucked so bad at governing when they had a chance. Hope we don't blow it too.
***************************
Vote Democratic! The ass you save may be your own.
They aren't protesting taxes!
They are protesting Democracy! They are sad and ticked off becuase they lost! What they really wnt is a Do Over!
Really do you think the Tea Baggers would be protesting if John McCain would have won? NO! Barack Obama hasn't even TOUCH THE TAX CODE YET so what are they complaining about. They don't fool me. And we shouldn't even pay these clowns any attention until they actual start making sense!
Anthony D. Hall,
Fighting for Truth, Justice, Freedom and the American Way!
For the record, there wasn't
For the record, there wasn't free money in our household, which I explained in the paragraph after the Myrtle Beach anecdote. Mooching for such gallivanting was quickly nipped in the bud by my parents, and we were required to have jobs to fund such things. My point was that, as private citizens (and even as teenagers), we actually have to budget according to our means.
I could NOT just go to my father and say, "But Dad, I'm 'raising revenue' for a very important 'investment' I'm making in a road trip to Myrtle Beach. Any cuts in my current expenditures would be detrimental to my Bojangle's nutrition initiative."
I believe that governments (and I specifically faulted local and federal, Republican and Democratic, not just the administration) should be subject to at least a modicum of the same discipline. If you can ask it of your 17-yr-old, it's not out of bounds to ask it of your government. Taxpayers, even rich ones, are not and should not be considered an unlimited resource for undisciplined lawmakers.
Heh, didn't mean to go on and on. Anyway, I sincerely appreciate the fair and polite write-up. I'm glad you could be there!
--Mary Katharine Ham
What?
It was unreasonable for you to raise revenue? So you are saying it was unreasonable for you to get another job or try to get a raise?
More importantly, Government is not an individual. The very point of government is to do things which individuals can not do. To argue otherwise is to miss the point entirely.
"Keep the Faith"
Thanks for responding to this post
The multiple failures of logic and misplaced comparisons were making my head spin.
Please tell me this person is tasked with reading off a teleprompter and not any serious analysis.
Fair enough MK. I did
Fair enough MK. I did indicate I was probably on thin ice speculating. That said, there has been plenty of get rich quick money for nothin' culture racking Dems and Pubs alike over the past 20 years, and there has been plenty of trips as I discribed. I do apologise however for profiling you. Honestly, in my heart, I thought that probably would be a fun trip.
While funny, I do think it is probably incorrect advise to tell people to call their lawmakers, and ask, "is it hot enough for you." Not likely to get them the credibility and result they desire.
In any case, thanks for the clarification, and of course, it is always good to see a native North Carolinian be able to branch out and persue their dreams.
Mary, this is not a realistic analogy:
I know you were trying to be humorous, and my overwhelmingly childish side appreciates that, but the bulk of the economic revitalization funding is intended to be an investment in our future. You may feel the debt risk outweighs the benefits, and you may be right; but why don't we do another, far less frivolous and inappropriate Mary Katherine Ham teenage flashback:
When Mary Katherine wanted to go to college, where did all those thousands of dollars come from? Did her dad pay for it? If so, did he have to borrow some of it from a bank? Did Mary herself take out a student loan? If so, is she still paying it off?
See, we reached a point where an investment had to be made. Our future was at risk. The only way to make that investment was to borrow from that same future. It is a gamble, but it's a gamble we had to take.
Options
Couldn't she have gone to a cheaper community college? Worked during school? My wife and I are paying off 9 years with of college loans. Those were NOT an investment in our future, they are an albatross around our necks.
I have nothing against spending the stimulus on capital projects, but you would be surprised at how little is going towards that purpose. Most of it is being spent on current day to day obligations such as Medicaid and Eduction. Yes, those are items that need to be paid for, but they aren't new investments, they are current programs.
http://www.ncrecovery.gov/RecoveryPlan/NCImpact.aspx
Well, it wouldn't be very smart
to spend stimulus money on only new programs while the old programs leaked jobs and/or generated more out-of-pocket expenses for those already feeling the pinch.
Obama knows this, which is why he specifically mentioned states using some of the money for day-to-day operations.
As far as the college thing, of course she "could have" gone to community college to save money, as well as working while going to school. My daughter and older son did this for two years, and now they've both transferred up (UNCC, UNCG). And they're still working. I just wanted to know how MKH did it.
Mr, Hall, you couldn't be more INCORRECT!!!
With all due respect, Sir, you are completely wrong.
I attended a Tea Party in my home town a while back, so you're talking about me. How dare you, sir, insinuate that we are against democracy! That statement is as imflammatory as it is ludicrous. This is NOT about the current administration, nor is it about any particular party or politician. It's about the huge increase in our national debt and level of borrowing.
The amount of borrowing that the Fed's have done this year alone exceeds that of the last 30 years! THAT is why we protest. It not about a "Do-Over", or sour grapes as you claim, it's about bringing sanity and fiscal accountability back to Washington before we backrupt the entire country.
You do not speak for me, Sir, or any of the others that have attended these protests, and I do not appreciate your attempt to do so.
These protests, by the way, are the largest peaceful protests in the history of our nation! To attack and belittle literally tens of thousands of fellow American citizens for speaking their minds is unconscionable.
did you protest while Bush was in office?
Bush alone raised the national debt more than all the past 42 presidents combined.
from agonist.org:
When Bush was sworn in on January 20, 2001, the national debt was $5,727,776,738,304.64
When "W" left office on January 20, 2009, the national debt was $10,626,877,048,913.08
The growth in the national debt during his eight years in office: $4,899,100,310,608.44
The average yearly growth in the national debt during Bush's presidency: $612,387,538,826.05
During much of Bush's tenure, he had a Republican majority in both the House and the Senate.
He claimed that tax cuts would pay for themselves - they did not. He claimed that tax cuts would result in growth - we are in the worst economic downturn since the Great Depression.
Let us hope that once the economy rights itself, we will find the political will to insist that we pay what it costs to run this country. We need to do it as a general principle of what is right for America, and not empty words conditioned upon every citizen agreeing with how every dollar in the government budget is being spent.
What George Bush did to this country profoundly weakened us. We worry about the effect of spending a trillion dollars to bring us back from an economic precipice because, during times of relative prosperity we were sold a bill of goods about how our budget would be balanced at some time in future, despite all evidence to the contrary.
Doubling down on Bush's Failure
I have no love for Bush, I hate what he's done to our country and I'm 100% in agreement with you on his mushrooming of the debt. One reason I was optimistic about Obama was his promises to really clamp down on spending.
Less than five months in office, Obama has our national debt at almost $11.4 billion, we have a projected $1.8 trillion deficit this year and Obama's budget puts us at a projected $23 trillion in debt in 2019. Obama is doubling down on Bush's debt! Blame Bush all you want, but Obama is the one signing these bills now with Pelosi and Reid ushering them through the House and Senate. If our leaders wanted fiscal discipline, we'd get it. Apparently all the promises and talking about budgets, deficits and debts over the past 8 years was just blowing smoke.
We can't "tax" our way out of this hole. We are simply spending too much money. Do taxes need to go up? Of course. However, spending needs to come way down.
If you want to tweak a conservative, compare taxes/size of government to supply and demand. The "price" of government is the taxes we pay. If you lower the price you'll increase demand. Seems to track that way over the past 30 years. Every cut in taxes results in new more expensive programs. It's about time everyone started paying for the true cost of government and not passing it on to the next generation (or in today's case, the one after that).
*sigh*
I'm tired of Republicans trying to back away from BUSH!
OWN IT! YOU GUYS CREATED THIS MESS! Let us Democrats Fix it and get out of the way. You have lost any kind of credibility you guys once had.
Small Governments get taken over and ate alive, buy Bigger Stronger ones! Right now China is eating our Lunch! THEY OWN US! So you are trying to tell me a Smaller, Weaker, Government can withstand the forces all around us?
NO! We need a Strong Government to get us out of this mess. We need to raise taxes. The Biggest problem I had with the Economic Reinvestment and Recovery Plan was that it had TOO MANY TAX CUTS IN IT. It shouldn't have had so many tax cuts. The Tax CUTS weakened the overall affectiveness of the bill. Bottom line. Now it will take longer to see the actual results of the Stimulus.
Second it didn't do anything towards Trade. THE REPUBLICANS PULLED OUT THE BUY AMERICAN CLAUSES IN THE BILL THEN THEY DIDN'T EVEN VOTE FOR IT. I wouldn't have allowed them to pull it out. Democrats shouldn't have folded up on it. Hell, we shouldn't have gave and inch on anything. Especially since most Democrats knew that Republicans weren't really going to support the Bill anyway.
Anthony D. Hall,
Fighting for Truth, Justice, Freedom and the American Way!
You guys?
Where did that come from? I guess us guys are Democrats that think a country $23 trillion in debt is the wrong direction? I know taxes need to be raised, but we can't tax away $23 trillion in debt! I think I said taxes needed to go up.
Get off your anti-Bush trip and realize that what we do over the next 2 and 4 years is our responsibility. Bush is gone and the Repubs are powerless. Are we gonna add to the problem, or be part of the solution?
For the past 8 years we've railed about Bush and the Republicans for their reckless spending, but now that we are in power, fiscal common sense goes out of the window? Great, the only thing you'll prove is the Democratic party can do the same 180 once they get control that the Republicans did when Bush stole the election in '00.
I'm all for Fiscal Responsibility!
That why we need to Pay for all the Trillions we are spending. And yes look for areas where we can cut some wasteful spending at the sametime. Now i'm not for cutting jobs just for the sake of cutting spending. I'm for looking at the budget and making rational decisions. The TRILLIONS OF TAX CUTS IN THE STIMULUS WASN'T RATIONAL! The Spending is. The Private sector is keeping its money in its pockets waiting for things to turn around. The Government is the only sector that has the capability to jump start this economy! But I want to point to the major problem of Trade. Until we address our trade deficiet we want experience any real prosperity.
Anthony D. Hall,
Fighting for Truth, Justice, Freedom and the American Way!
Thanks!
This coward didn't even have the guts to reply to my comment! Knowing that I might not come back to this discussion. A weak move on his part. If he had such a Problem with Mr. Hall he should have let me know and I would have put him in his place but thanks for doing it for me.
Anthony D. Hall,
Fighting for Truth, Justice, Freedom and the American Way!
Ah, the Dap. Actually, I do
Ah, the Dap. Actually, I do agree that what transpired was little 'd' democratic, and appreciate anyone exercising thier constitutional rights. I do not believe they were 'protesting democracy'.
However, it is more than a stretch to say "These protests are the largest peaceful protests in the history of our nation!
Anti-war protests before the war of choice in Iraq were much larger and as polite and peaceful. That is just a start.
I will not assume that I speak for anyone, but as to spending, it is far more complicated than it is often made out to be. It was Dick Cheney who said deficets don't matter, and many complaining now voted for him and are still cheering him on. The real question should be what do we want our society to look like, and how best to get there. To get there, we are all going to have to listen to each other.
You are weak!
You should have replied DIRECTLY TO MY COMMENT then I would have known you made a comment to me cause I would have gotten the email!
As far as your comments give me a Break! You Right Wing Scum bags make me sick!
The current situation we are in is because and your kind Support BUSH and everything he wanted to do! Now when all the smoke clears and we see all the devastation that was left behind you guys want to SCREAM Fiscal Responsiblity! Please. The Audacity of Hypocrisy!
You and the Entire NEO-CON, Tea Bagging Movement are FRAUDS! YOU KNOW IT!
Protesting Spending! Don't make me laugh! You guys spent money like DRUNKEN SAILORS FOR YEARS, NOW YOU WANT ME TO BELIEVE YOU ARE SOBER? AINT GOING TO BUY IT! If we let you guys back in the White House you would probably sell it to China to pay off all the Debt we have been selling to them over the Last 8 years of failure by the Republican Leadership.
Oh yeah, we all have a lot to pissed about but don't act like you NE0-CONS have the solutions when you and your kind are THE PROBLEM!
Anthony D. Hall,
Fighting for Truth, Justice, Freedom and the American Way!
Way to elevate the dialogue
Do you ever expect anything remotely productive to come out of the "conversations" you have with those you disagree with?
NO!
Wasn't my intent to have anything remotely productive to come out of those comments I made! I CALL A SPADE A SPADE! Bottom line! They are NEO-CONS and they are Frauds! Where am I wrong? They are Right Wingers and a large majority of them are SCUM BAGS! Thats my opinion! Especially the ones that go out of their way to mislead, misdirect and push extremist to committ crimes all in the name of being Patriotic and protesting tax increases that haven't even happen yet. Tea Baggers are the lowest of the low. I'll heard the comments these guys keep making, I'll seen the hate coming out of those Tea Bagging Rallys. There is time for Rational Conversation, but sometimes you just got to tell the truth!
Anthony D. Hall,
Fighting for Truth, Justice, Freedom and the American Way!
Whalercane, Thanks for the reply.
Truer words were never spoken. I think your article was quite well done, and written fairly objectively. I took issue to some of the other commenters, not yourself. I find it troubling, however, that some of the other posters do not share you feellings, and have descended upon me like jackals. That type of treatment I can neither understand or abide. That is the whole reason for this reply, likely my last, as I see I've entered a hornet's nest, and will not be a whipping boy for this forum.
Perhaps you can convince some of the "Yellers" on here to entertain using your mindset, to do a little more listening, and not so much harsh name-calling and berating.
I thank you for your thoughtful reply, but am perplexed at your reference to "The Dap". Are we known to each other? I blog on other NC forums, which is why I ask. The letters "DAP" are my intials, with a -"ster" added. Long story...
Too the other naysayers, I will respond thusly:
Nope. First protest ever. I've heard that argument before, and I answer it in this way: The "Tipping Point" had still not been reached at that point. It was TARP, the Stimulus, et al that pushed myself and many others over the brink. Also, to say the timing of these protest takes anything away from the cause, or negates them somehow, is akin to saying the Viet Nam protesters had no right to protest the war after the transistion from Johnson to Nixon.
Ah, Mr. Hall, now to you, Sir:
I am not weak. I am not drunk. Neither am I a Neo-Con, Fraud, Scumbag, or any of the other awful things that you attempt to paint me as. I'm a Fiscal Conservative and a Social Libertarian, but mostly I am AN AMERICAN! I simply cannot believe the string of baseless ad hominem attacks that were included in your rant.
I can tell from your mindset that it is a losing propostion to attempt to enter into any type of civil debate with you, since you seem incapable of doing so without resorting to childish attacks and generalizations on people you know absolutely nothing about.
For shame, Sir, that you would treat such a large number of your fellow Americans so harshly, and paint with such a broad brush. I cannot believe the animosity that exists in our country these days between the citizenry. How have we allowed ourselves to become so divided, and so hateful towards one another? Over political party ideological differences? How sad is that?!?
"My Kind" is not the problem here, as "My Kind" and "Your Kind" are no different, as we're both Male American Human Beings. We just have different ideologies, but I'll allow you to have yours without name-calling and personal attacks and insults, as I believe in your right to your opinion, as well as the right to express it without fear of reprisal. I also believe in dealing with others in a respectful and understanding manner, and having an open mind.
You, Sir, have shown me none of those graces, and should be ashamed.
Good Day, and Good Luck to you all.
dapster out.
You came at me, I come back, you whine and moan about it......
YOU ARE WEAK! You call me out! Sorry if you can't take what you dish out!
And to top that off you didn't even reply to my post. I have debates all the time with Right Wingers, Neo-CONs what ever they want to call themselves. They don't Back away from it because that what they are. I am a Liberal, Progressive. You could call me all of those and more. I'm not going to cry about it. Grow a pair or go home!
Anthony D. Hall,
Fighting for Truth, Justice, Freedom and the American Way!
NO!
Wasn't my intent to have anything remotely productive to come out of those comments I made! I CALL A SPADE A SPADE! Bottom line! They are NEO-CONS and they are Frauds! Where am I wrong? They are Right Wingers and a large majority of them are SCUM BAGS! Thats my opinion! Especially the ones that go out of their way to mislead, misdirect and push extremist to committ crimes all in the name of being Patriotic and protesting tax increases that haven't even happen yet. Tea Baggers are the lowest of the low. I'll heard the comments these guys keep making, I'll seen the hate coming out of those Tea Bagging Rallys. There is time for Rational Conversation, but sometimes you just got to tell the truth!
Anthony D. Hall,
Fighting for Truth, Justice, Freedom and the American Way!
NO!
Wasn't my intent to have anything remotely productive to come out of those comments I made! I CALL A SPADE A SPADE! Bottom line! They are NEO-CONS and they are Frauds! Where am I wrong? They are Right Wingers and a large majority of them are SCUM BAGS! Thats my opinion! Especially the ones that go out of their way to mislead, misdirect and push extremist to committ crimes all in the name of being Patriotic and protesting tax increases that haven't even happen yet. Tea Baggers are the lowest of the low. I'll heard the comments these guys keep making, I'll seen the hate coming out of those Tea Bagging Rallys. There is time for Rational Conversation, but sometimes you just got to tell the truth!
Anthony D. Hall,
Fighting for Truth, Justice, Freedom and the American Way!
Wow....
You've got some hate and anger issues you really need to work out there, Mr, Hall.
I don't really know "how to reply to your posts", since this type of forum is new to me, nor do I really care to, since I refuse to enter a battle of wits with an unarmed man, and I find your words repulsive.
Way to "Take the High Road" with your message! I'm certain that you've been able to convince many, many conservatives to join your ranks through your brilliant writing skills coupled with your witty banter.
Keep it up, though! You and your extremist pals are doing nothing but hurting your cause, and stengthening others. You must always remember that rhetoric is a double-edged sword, with one edge always presented at the wielder, and is a constant threat to said wielder should he lose focus.
You and your ilk have begun to awaken the "Silent Majority" through your hate speech, and it will come back to haunt you. Consider this qoute, and LEARN from history, lest you repeat it:
"I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve." Isoroku Yamamoto, IJN Admiral, 12/7/1941, after the successful attack on American Forces at Pearl Harbor.
It is awake, and it is gaining resolve. Continue the hate at your own peril. The new-found power you now revel in is yours to lose, and this endless spiteful rhetoric will only speed up the process.
Your guy WON! Congratulations! Now go do the right thing by all of us.
PS: As far as "Growing a Pair" goes, I did all that as a younger man, thank you, and they're with me still. It seems to me I removed yours for you during our little "Debate". You can have them back when you learn to play nice....
Done with you. You can consider my future absence as a "Victory" in your little mind if you wish.
It easy!
Under each comment it says reply. You hit reply. The administrators send you and email telling you someone has replied to one of your comments. Very simple.
As for your comments don't make me laugh! Your insults are flattering! It means that is all you got!
Silent Majority? Just who are they! Never heard of them. I guess I haven't heard of them because they are silent. Well, I hope they (If they really exist) remain silent!
See ya!
Anthony D. Hall,
Fighting for Truth, Justice, Freedom and the American Way!