H RES 847 - Because we have to pander to Christians, don't we?

Can you believe it? I bet you can. I actually bet most people don't really mind it either. But the House of Representatives voted to officially recognize the importance of Christmas and the Christian faith.

I will admit, Christmas is a great time. In fact, it's the most wonderful time of the year. Or so they sing. But I would really like to know why the House would opt to recognize one religion for its beliefs and not the others? Are we pandering to the religious right? Are we trying to send a message to radical Islamic fundamentalists? Are we further blurring the lines between Church and State?

Where is the official support of Judaism? How about Buddhism? The Baha'i? The Pagans?

There wouldn't be Christmas without Judaism or Paganism. The Christian Bible was built upon the foundation of the Torah and a large majority of Christmas tradition comes from Paganism!

So tell me, Democratic Congressmen who happen to read this; Explain your vote. Tell me why you felt compelled to promote one religion over the other.

And your answer better be damn good.


Because on issues like this . . .

They are mostly political cowards. They see no upside in offending Christians - and no downside to offending everyone else. Including me.

But you see, there is a downside. They no longer get my money. They get my vote, no question there, because I'd sooner vote for a snake than a Republican. But when it comes to the money department? The spigot is closed.

Aye NC-1 Butterfield, George [D]
Aye NC-2 Etheridge, Bob [D]
Aye NC-3 Jones, Walter [R]
Aye NC-4 Price, David [D]
Aye NC-5 Foxx, Virginia [R]
Aye NC-6 Coble, Howard [R]
Aye NC-7 McIntyre, Mike [D]
Aye NC-8 Hayes, Robin [R]
Aye NC-9 Myrick, Sue [R]
Aye NC-10 Mchenry, Patrick [R]
Aye NC-11 Shuler, Heath [D]
Aye NC-12 Watt, Melvin [D]
Aye NC-13 Miller, R. [D]


There will be primary challengers who are right wing lunatics, though sometimes Price gets attacked from the left. For me it's going to have to be case-by-case.

The whole money thing has gotten kind of interesting. I get a dozen or so campaign solicitations every week. As the current Congress has dragged on, I've drawn a line and said "no more" to any of them. It pains me to do it, but I feel like I'm being played for a chump. David Price could have voted against this piece of crap legislation without suffering one bit in his district, but he's not a boat rocker and I'm sure he doesn't want to have to explain himself.

Politically courageous Congressmen are an endangered species.

President Huckabee Spiritual adviser speaks about Congress Xmas

I thought the bible was a myth in politics ?*Confuse Xmas Diversity Atheist voter

Which one?

The Catholic Bible?

The reverse King James the 3 rd edition

The Jewish inside texttrack edition

The Knight's Templar private global new world order edition

The Albert Pike Great Architect edition

The Geek and New Age computer edition

The Church of the Latter Day Home School Devils edition

The Mitt Romney instant golden underware edition

The Art of Religious Bullshit in one easy read edition

The Far East Tribal Warfare "Don't you dare Piss in my creek edition"

The Da Vinci Conspiracy edition [ The Pope murder Christ by waterboarding him]

And the newly release Surf Board Cult Califorina edition ...." Waterboarding to Paradise" by the Beach Boys

And finally the bible of western North Carolina that no snake handing Holy Ghost church should be without.

"How to dial 911 in case the devil bits you edition"

Moses, Chief adviser to President Huckabee

You kill me

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing
-Edmund Burke

Please excuse this bit of silliness on my part ....

The Da Vinci Conspiracy edition [ The Pope murder Christ by waterboarding him]

Come on now Max, Art is not that old.

And for Brunette ...

You kill me

Now, now, now, it's the holidays so shouldn't that be "You sleigh me."

Well, I am very amused anyways ... (he said, grinning like a deranged beaver.)

Person County Democrats

I actively oppose gerrymandering. Do you?


Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting


I love bad puns!!!!!!!

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing
-Edmund Burke

I saw this vote a day or two a go

and thought I'd post on it, and here my sweet spouse has beat me to it.

I don't have a thing against Christmas or Christianity - in fact, some of my best friends are Christians. () I feel like this is resolution is pandering in its most silly form - and its most dangerous. Silly because - really a waste of time. Dangerous because this one slipped by most people without a notice, let alone a mention.

As for money and votes, I'm of a mixed mind on that. It's unfortunate, but those are what get you influence, yes? Isn't that the point behind K street? I'm extremely disappointed in the Democratic delegation from NC - they should know better, even though they represent, well, NC. At some point, they should lead, as well as represent.

Be the change you wish to see in the world. --Gandhi

Leader is becoming an empty title.

It seems less truly lead with each passing day. They all have a point at which they can be bought, folded, and spindled while the mutilation is our mandated representation. Sad that none of these people had the ba.. um.. cahones to do the right thing rather than the popular thing.

Christians - only species lerft to bash

I think it's abundantly clear that you can bash Christians in America and nothing happens. Try the same against Muslims and you get people with large, sharpened knives demanding the head of a school teacher for naming a teddy bear Mohammed after the name of a student!

Christopher Hitchens had a great line during his recent 3 hours on C-SPAN for those who fear the religious right. He said it was a false worry in that the last time they had any real power to speak of they made America a dry land (I think it was The Volstead Amendment that gave us prohibition). That failed completely - thank you God - and the religious right couldn't come close to mustering the power now that they had back then. Therefore, fearing a group of Jerry Falwells, Pat Robinsons, or Bill Grahams running America is silliness.


Except when they organize their "faithful"

and install someone like BUSH.

Therefore, fearing a group of Jerry Falwells, Pat Robinsons, or Bill Grahams running America is silliness.

Have you called to support H. Res 333 Impeach Cheney Today? call 202-224-3121 & ask for your Congress member by name

It Can't Happen Here

was the name of a book by Sinclair Lewis. It was published in the thirties, and described how it *can* happen here. He wasn't talking about the Religious Right, but about fascism. Pretty close. It was the shrug-it-off, "It can't happen here" mentality that enabled fascists to take control of the government.

I'm not sure how "abundantly clear" it is that you can bash Christians and nothing happens, but it is certainly the new political correctness to declare it so. They've been at this game since the eighties, "We're being persecuted!!!" What a bunch of baloney.

The Christians, the ones to whom the politicians are pandering, are in no danger of persecution. Were it so, I doubt the current front runner in the GOP contest would be touting his Christianity. I'm not seeing any other high placed officials exactly running from the label, which I think might be the case if indeed "christians" were being bashed and otherwise oppressed. The religious right commands a hefty block vote, which is the only reason we see abortion rights in serious jeopardy now. Look at the composition of the Supreme Court. You notice those folks making "Anti-Christian" decisions lately? Antonin Scalia? John Roberts? Clarence Thomas? Yeah, they're cowering with fear over all the oppression.

There's an awful lot of money rolling in from these oppressed people to televangelists, no shortage of "witnessing" on bumperstickers, an awful lot of very expensive church buildings in my town, around which are an awful lof of car parked illegally on Sundays that never get tickets. I recall that Greg Laurie fellow sure did pull in an enormous crowd on his recent visit to Raleigh, and got some very friendly publicity from the N&O.

Here's something else you might wish to consider. The reason you hear so many jokes and sneers about "Christianity" is that this is the predominant religion in the states. I'm not talking about numbers, but power. As Jon Stewart said, his comedy writers take a lot of shots at the Bush Administration because they're the guys in the White House. When a democrat gets in, he or she will be in for the same treatment.

Christianity is well *established* in the states, enjoys a healthy following, has tremendous influence, is subject to abuse -- as any powerful institution is -- by people who claim to be adherents (Dobson, Robertson and the like) and thus comes in for and is due plenty of criticism.

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing
-Edmund Burke

How silly

Why recognize the importance of Christmas? Maybe so all the non-Christian toy store owners can gather around their bulging cash registers on Dec. 24th and sing "what a friend we have in Jesus" ...

Why recognize the importance of Christianity? Maybe because the mindless bulk of our society has bought into George Bush's dichotomous "you're either for us or against us" way of thinking. We're losing the ability to think in terms other than black and white, us or them, righteous or "evildoers".



No matter that patriotism is too often the refuge of scoundrels. Dissent, rebellion, and all-around hell-raising remain the true duty of patriots.

Progressive Discussions

We didn't vote to favor one religion over another.

We earlier passed similar resolutions honoring Islam and Buddhism.
I will happily vote to honor Judaism, the Baha'i (I really liked Seals and Croft in college), or other major religions. I voted for the resolution precisely to maintain the neutrality of the state by honoring Christianity the same way we had honored other major religions.

Happy Holidays.

But really

These resolutions are kind of silly.

By the way, when were those resolutions honoring Islam and Buddhism passed?

I'd be very interested to know.

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing
-Edmund Burke

I don't disagree.

I'm not sure when the resolutions honoring Islam and Buddhism passed. I vaguely remember that the resolution honoring Islam was around the time of a religious observance (Ramadan?). I actually don't recall the vote on Buddhism at all. As I think about it, I'm not sure the other resolution honored Buddhism. It may have honored Hinduism. I just remember from the discussion of the resolution honoring Christianity that we had already honored two other major world religions.

Thank you for your response

That you are tuned here in is very much appreciated.

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing
-Edmund Burke

He has this special radar

he's amazing, really.


Robin Hayes lied. Nobody died, but thousands of folks lost their jobs.

Vote Democratic! The ass you save may be your own.

Thank you Brad

While these are definitely silly, did anyone at all bring up the fact that maybe a resolution honoring the freedom of ALL beliefs/religion or none at all, would be more reasonable? It's a slippery slope, undoubtedly, but when you give credit to one you're going to be asked to give credit to all.

Hells bells.

I guess you can't really vote against Christianity if you already voted for Judaism.

But if you personally hadn't voted on any of them before, wouldn't it be possible to say "This is not the proper business of the United States Congress" and I respectfully decline to participate in this vote."

I've had many conversations by email and in person with other Congressmen who have said the House was too busy over the past year and there wasn't time to get into divisive issues like, say, impeachment. So when I see this kind of crap, it really cranks up the cynicism meter.

Final thought: I don't know what life is like on the ground with all the parliamentary rules and political posturing, but from out here, it sure looks like the Dems are being out-maneuvered more often than not. You're losing the PR war for sure.

That's kind of what I thought.

There's not a thing wrong with Christianity - but I'm sure that the Congress of the United States has more important business than writing and voting on resolutions supporting it - and any other religion. So many actual constitutional issues, so little time. So many children without health care, so little time. So many Bushco Scandals to investigate, so little time.

I suppose that's disingenuous of me. I appreciate the time Rep. Miller took to answer for his vote on this issue. You're one of the really good guys, Brad. Thanks.

Be the change you wish to see in the world. --Gandhi

He is one of the good guys

No question about it.

I'd really like to honestly and clearly hear what goes on in the mind of a Congressman when confronted with bills like this. Well, let me qualify that. I could give a flying flip what Patty McHorny or Flipper Hayes has to say about anything.

How about a counter resolution....

something along the lines of....
"Be it resolved that Christmas is a Christian holiday celebrating the birth of Christ; and,
Be it resolved that the birth of Christ has no correlation to buying stuff; and,
Be it finally resolved that we ask all good Christians to celebrate Christmas in the traditional manner without the purchasing of toys from China that will end up in our landfills."

No one knows for sure on what day Christ was born. Dionysus Exiguus, a sixth century monk, who was the first to date all of history from December 25th, the year of our Lord 1. Other traditions gave dates as early as mid-November or as late as March. How did Christmas come to be celebrated on December 25th? Cultures around the Mediterranean and across Europe observed feasts on or around December 25th, marking the winter solstice. The Jews had a festival of lights. Germans had a yule festival. Celtic legends connected the solstice with Balder, the Scandinavian sun god who was struck down by a mistletoe arrow. At the pagan festival of Saturnalia, Romans feasted and gave gifts to the poor. Drinking was closely connected with these pagan feasts. At some point, a Christian bishop may have adopted the day to keep his people from indulging in the old pagan festival.

Historian William J. Tighe offers a different view, however. When a consensus arose in the church to celebrate Christ's conception on March 25th, it was reasonable to celebrate his birth nine months later.

Many of the pagan customs became associated with Christmas. Christian stories replaced the heathen tales, but the practices hung on. Candles continued to be lit. Kissing under the mistletoe remained common in Scandinavian countries. But over the years, gift exchanges became connected with the name of St. Nicholas, a real but legendary figure of 4th century Lycia (a province of Asia). A charitable man, he threw gifts into homes.

Around the thirteenth century, Christians added one of the most pleasant touches of all to Christmas celebration when they began to sing Christmas carols.

So, light a candle, get wasted, and give gifts to the poor.

One of the pitfalls of childhood is that one doesn't have to understand something to feel it. - Carlos Ruiz Zafon

Jesus Swept ticked me off. Too short. I loved the characters and then POOF it was over.

Awesome! :-D

So, light a candle, get wasted, and give gifts to the poor.

I'm IN!!!!

I have not bought a single dang Christmas gift yet except what Cait and I have bought for our respective angle tree (school) and star tree (work) recipients.


I do this every year ... recon the week after thanksgiving and then wait until the last minute to purchase. Mostly because I just really seriously detest shopping in all it's forms. Next mostly because Christmas is purchased with my third December check .... the one that comes in the middle of December. Besides, I am of the opinion that if I can't get it online (ebgames/LLBean) or at the corner drugstore (dark chocolate oranges and ribbon candy) or at whole foods (smoked salmon, clementines, fair trade coffee and chilli laced dark cocoa) or the used CD store, I doesn't need it.

(P.s. is there any way I can get a liiiiitttle more room for my sig line? I keep having to add the last few words with every comment. No, I don't want to shorten it. Yes, I'm stubborn as a mule.)
"I have learned two great lessons ... One; that there will always be heartache and struggle. The other; that people of strong will can make a difference. One is a sad lesson; the other an inspiration. I choose to be inspired." --JRE

"They took all the trees and put them in a tree museum Then they charged the people a dollar 'n a half just to see 'em. Don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you've got till it's gone? They paved paradise and put up a parking lot."

The fear and mistrust of those who are different

could well be the most difficult hurdle that humans will have to overcome if we are to survive longterm. IMO this is hardwired into the collective consciousness, it could even be a part of the brain stem, the primitive brain.
Ever since we separated in to roving and competing packs of apes walking upright, we have had to contend with the fear of the "others". That's 5 - 10 million years of programming. In biblical terms, the competition has been intense ever since Cain and Abel.
That dark side of our nature creates a tension with the collective, cooperative side of ourselves. Lone humans would not have faired well in prehistoric times, only by cooperating could the wandering bands sleep, hunt large game, or survive a harsh winter.
Bush et al have exploited the dark, fearful side of human nature. In the days and years post 9-11 we were especially susceptible to the "us vs. them" suggestion.
The pendulum would seem to be swinging back toward cooperation as the influence of our primitive brain yields to our more thougthful, and so caring, selves.

Person County Democrats

I actively oppose gerrymandering. Do you?

Bush v. Gore

persondem wrote: "Bush et al have exploited the dark, fearful side of human nature."

Before I comment, if anyone reads a republican named Kevin Phillips books "American Theocracy" and "American Dynasty" you'll learn that LBJ had nothing on the dirty politics in Texas that followed Dubya to the WH.

I can't figure out who is dumber...is it George Bush or is it Al Gore? I used to think it was Gore because I would half listen to Gore while with Bush, once he mangled the English language I'd turn him off. Both are fabulously rich, which immediately tells me they are crooked in the absence of an invention or a successfully run corporation.

Now, I have to start giving the nod to Bush as dumbest because Al Gore, despite a look in his eyes like he has always had the best weed available, is going to make $100 million in 2007 off of the same fear you speak of, but he uses global warming. Global warming is like 2nd hand smoke; it is politicized and you can take numbers and prove it, or disprove it, both with equal validity. But Gore took it and made $100 million! Not only that, I want kids to think critically because if they don't they will continue to vote for what is demonstrably the worst politicians we have ever had in Washington on both sides of the aisle. Congress has an 11% approval rating the last time I looked. And they have earned very point of the other 89%. Is steroids in baseball really more important than why Diane Feinstein quietly resigned from a commitee in January and how her and her husband's wealth has jumped exponentially [check Wikipedia] since the war started?

Many years ago I was a democrat. I was a Hubert Humphrey democrat. Carter made me think he held too many snakes and drank too much stricknyne (sp?). Clinton made me agree with Hitchen's book "No One Left To Lie To", and Bush made me ask how John Edwards could be the counter ansser and the best the democrats could offer. I don't want to do Bill Clintin Redux and Obama should be viewed as to what happened to America when a weak man (Carter) held office. Maybe with six more years in the senate and a governorship. But sending Obama to the WH has the potential to be an unmitigated disaster. Where is a candidate like a Sam Nunn (he's too old) that has the knowledge necessary? This isn't a job where you ask for on-the-job training. And let's make a fair comparison for a moment between what governors have to do and look at what Schwarzennegar has done to California. Arnold is a liberal democrat. Like Bloomberg, he ran as a republican to attain office. Liberal democrats aren't the answer with a national debt of $9 trillion. And no nation in history has ever taxed themselves out of a problem. Yet that's what I keep hearing said in the democrat debates - higher taxes. I pay 50%. That's not enough? And if we want to see the government running health care just look at what they did with passports last year. Let me break something to people as a new registrant here - the best minds do not go into government, and the most corrupt generally go into higher office. People are musing about Christianity being commented on. Looking at America it seems that prayer is the only thing that might work. But it also looks like we've been told "sorry...we're closed".

My only question left is if it's true that Americans get the government they deserve [which I think de Tocqueville said in a positive fashion as the people demanded good government and the politicians literally lived amongst you] or if it doesn't matter who we vote for anymore because there are two things that are said to never be watched being made: 1- law, and 2- sausage.

I heard PJ O'Rourke speak in person recently. He said it is wrong to hate politicians as no one can come to office and change politics. If you had your hopes on someone promising change, you have deluded yourself into thinking that the individual who ran a multi-million dollar campaign will not be corrupted by the system itself. They owe people...they owe a lot of people.

Isn't it interesting that the Constitution, man's greatest document and the framework for success written widely after studies of governments and nations that failed, left out term limits? The framers never conceived that the people wouldn't be able to hold their politicians accountable, and even thought good men could appear and continue to hold office. Now, since America is no longer under 2 million people, they have isolated themselves from us, win elections by telling us how bad their opponent is, gerrymander their districts with the opposing party, and are often one opened closet away from jail themselves.

Our nation has reached a sad state of affairs. We now survive for one reason and one reason only: No nation has yet become strong enough to defeat us. I'd rather invite a family from a shelter to Thanksgiving dinner that 95% of the people who run for office.


You appear to do a lot of selective listening

. . . if you believe progressive Democrats are all about higher taxes. True, some of us want to rescind tax cuts on the wealthiest . . . I'm all for that . . . and many of us want to reduce or kill subsidies to business interests (agriculture, energy, steel, you name it). Take those two actions and end Bush's insane war in Iraq and you'd have more than enough tax revenues to cover every need I can think of.


Why do you think the best minds don't go into government? Could it be because of the awesome power of the so-called free market . . . in which a steroid-taking asshole makes more in one baseball game than a dedicated teacher makes in an entire career?

I agree with you that things in this country are in piss-poor shape, and I attribute the most recent precipitous decline to the Greedy Old Party. That said, if you stick around for awhile, you'll find most of us at BlueNC to be equal-opportunity critics. I personally have more problems with Democratic malfeasance and corruption because I feel more responsible for it.


In any case, welcome to BlueNC. We're always interested in new voices.

But I do have a small piece of advice. This is a big-tent community, a dysfunctional family almost, and you've just stepped into our cozy little living room. And while you may actually be smarter and wiser and more knowledgeable than all of the rest of us put together, you probably won't get one of the comfortable chairs by writing stuff like this:

Let me break something to people as a new registrant here . . .

Just saying.

If this is meant to impress people here:

I heard PJ O'Rourke speak in person recently.

You may find it's done quite the opposite. At least with me, anyway. If you really want proof of how messed up this country has become, just consider how many people actually pay attention to this guy:

Let's reintroduce corporal punishment in the schools - and use it on the teachers.

It's already there—thousands of teachers quit every year from fear of physical harm at the hands of their students.

The Clinton administration launched an attack on people in Texas because those people were religious nuts with guns. Hell, this country was founded by religious nuts with guns. Who does Bill Clinton think stepped ashore on Plymouth Rock?

Right. The folks on the Mayflower were self-proclaimed prophets who demanded sexual favors from children. Gimme a break.

There are a number of mechanical devices which increase sexual arousal, particularly in women. Chief among these is the Mercedes-Benz 380SL convertible.

I always wondered who the original mysogynistic idiot was who thought this up. Now I know.

You seem to channel right wing talk radio...

The following is a crock:

Global warming is like 2nd hand smoke; it is politicized and you can take numbers and prove it, or disprove it, both with equal validity

Even the Bush administration's EPA admits that GW is real. Here's more from the Union of Concerned Scientists if you like.

More innaccuracies from talk radio ...

Congress has an 11% approval rating the last time I looked.

This tidbit is often repeated by those who wish to lump the Reps and Dems together so the public's negative attitude toward the Bush administration and Reps in general rubs off on the Dems. Real numbers look like this. Still nothing to be too proud about but hardly 11%. Also, when separated by party Dems are 8 - 10% ahead of Reps.

Liberal democrats aren't the answer with a national debt of $9 trillion.

Ah, the old tax and spend liberal myth rears its head. Most of that 9 trillion in debt has been run up by Rep administrations including 3 trillion attibuted to the current (mis)administration.

This next bit I'll generally agree with:

.... they [politicians] have isolated themselves from us, win elections by telling us how bad their opponent is, gerrymander their districts with the opposing party, and are often one opened closet away from jail themselves.

But I don't think term limits are the answer; I think elections should be fair. Our electoral system is in need of an overhaul to get money out and to make them a few months long as opposed to the neverending mouse wheel we are on today.

I can't figure out who is dumber...is it George Bush or is it Al Gore?

If you really have any trouble with the above then your intellect is in question. I'll assume it was a bit of hyperbole.

As others have said, welcome, but realize that tired, innaccurate, right wing talking points will not play well here.

Person County Democrats

I actively oppose gerrymandering. Do you?

I don't mind it at all ...

Really? We shouldn't honor a holiday that is the high point for millions of Christians in the world, not to mention the ones in the US?

For those w/ constitutional arguments, this does not establish a religion (establishment clause). It does, however, celebrate a group of people who are freely exercising their religion (free exercise clause) during this time of year.

Those w/ religious arguments, please let us know what personal religious holidays you are currently celebrating so we can recognize them as well. I'm all for that. For those who are atheists or agnostics, then I'm sure you won't mind us people of faith celebrating our religious beliefs and having our duly elected government recognize those beliefs and its importance to us. I assure you, our faith is important to us. Like many of our beliefs, whether political or social, we can't explain it if you don't share it, so asking us to acknowledge it on your terms doesn't really make sense. And, heck, we all know Christmas is not only a religious holiday, it's also a secular time of gift-giving and the gathering of friends and family. So let's celebrate those non-Christians who celebrate that aspect of it.

Here's the entire text of the apparent offensive resolution:

Recognizing the importance of Christmas and the Christian faith.

Whereas Christmas, a holiday of great significance to Americans and many other cultures and nationalities, is celebrated annually by Christians throughout the United States and the world;

Whereas there are approximately 225,000,000 Christians in the United States, making Christianity the religion of over three-fourths of the American population;

Whereas there are approximately 2,000,000,000 Christians throughout the world, making Christianity the largest religion in the world and the religion of about one-third of the world population;

Whereas Christians identify themselves as those who believe in the salvation from sin offered to them through the sacrifice of their savior, Jesus Christ, the Son of God, and who, out of gratitude for the gift of salvation, commit themselves to living their lives in accordance with the teachings of the Holy Bible;

Whereas Christians and Christianity have contributed greatly to the development of western civilization;

Whereas the United States, being founded as a constitutional republic in the traditions of western civilization, finds much in its history that points observers back to its roots in Christianity;

Whereas on December 25 of each calendar year, American Christians observe Christmas , the holiday celebrating the birth of their savior, Jesus Christ;

Whereas for Christians, Christmas is celebrated as a recognition of God's redemption, mercy, and Grace; and

Whereas many Christians and non-Christians throughout the United States and the rest of the world, celebrate Christmas as a time to serve others: Now, therefore be it

Resolved, That the House of Representatives--

(1) recognizes the Christian faith as one of the great religions of the world;
(2) expresses continued support for Christians in the United States and worldwide;
(3) acknowledges the international religious and historical importance of Christmas and the Christian faith;
(4) acknowledges and supports the role played by Christians and Christianity in the founding of the United States and in the formation of the western civilization;
(5) rejects bigotry and persecution directed against Christians, both in the United States and worldwide; and
(6) expresses its deepest respect to American Christians and Christians throughout the world.

Are there two or three points we could squabble about in the text? Sure. And will it affect anything? ...nope. Not really. Not sure when any argument over religion has ever gone too smoothly! But doesn't mean we can't talk about it openly, honestly, and respectfully.

I think it's great that we all have different political, religious, and social beliefs. But to accuse our government of a grand conspiracy anytime they mention religion is anathema to our country and its Constitution. Do I say this is a "Christian nation"? Of course not. Do I say that a majority of Americans identify as Christian (check off church attendance on Easter and Christmas at the very least!)? Oh yes. So do we ask our government never to acknowledge the religion of many of its people during one of their greatest religious holy days?

If Christians are not allowed to be celebrated in our Party, as all religions should be, then I think the our membership numbers would slightly rival the Green Party. I'm a little offended by some of the comments on here, but that's life, I'll get over it. But it makes it hard to convince the majority of Americans/North Carolinians, many whom are Christians and other members of faith, to come to our side when there are comments like this.

So, if you truly find this resolution offensive, then I would encourage you to post a resolution of your own celebrating your faith or non-faith.

So Merr...er...Happy Holidays to everyone!

Going to defend the practice as a whole

Remember, People like Brad are Representatives for the rest of us. So when they vote on something like this, they are saying that the government and the people of the United States recognize something. With all the hate and distrust in our society, dont you think its nice that we can almost unanimously pass resolutions honoring things like a Muslim holiday or a single hero, or any number of other things.

It might seem silly, but I think it ultimately does more good than harm.

"Keep the Faith"

"Keep the Faith"

Well, in our house

we celebrate a secular Christmas, because it's the tradition that both of our families grew up with. But our religious/spiritual Holiday is Yule - or the Winter Solstice. It is the shortest day, and the longest night of the year. It's traditional for us, as pagans, to watch through the night with a bonfire (or - you know - sometimes just one in the fireplace) for the Light to be reborn. Every day will get longer from then on. In earlier, all agricultural times, our ancestors knew that as the days grew longer, spring would eventually come, seeds would be blessed and planted six weeks later at Imbolc (about Feb 2) when the ewes and cows first came into their milk, and then, finally, at the Vernal Equinox, or Ostara, the first green shoots of spring would be celebrated. For us it's a wheel, never ending, and Yule is a very important part of it.

For me personally, Yule is important because Dec. 21 is also my wedding anniversary. As the Light was returning to the earth on 12/21/2001, so it was returning to my life. :) It's a special day.

And I don't have problem honoring Christmas. I have a problem not taking care of more important stuff. Like s-chip. and impeachment.

Be the change you wish to see in the world. --Gandhi

Festivus for the restivus

Daily we have the airing of the grievences here at BlueNC.

"jump in where you can and hang on"
Briscoe Darling to Sheriff Andy

tinsel is, indeed, distracting

But oh GEEZ did I love to play with it when I was a kid. I used to take a single strand, stretch it across those big old fashioned colored xmas lights, and watch the heat distort the silver until it was all grey and stretched out. God knows how much lead I was carrying on my fingertips! I've always suspected that I would have been much more accomplished if it weren't for all that paint chip munching, and now I know there's tinsel stretching to blame as well.

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing
-Edmund Burke

100 million of our own people

I don't know anything about this bill; is there some substance to it that I'm missing?

Is there harm in showing respect for a set of values that is, at it's core, essentially progressive? Y'all didn't believe Ralph Reed when he said he speaks for Christ?

Read this: revolutioninjesusland.com

Progressives will never achieve their goals as long as they are hostile toward the faith of 100 million of their own people who are born again Christians.

- - - - -
Thomas Jefferson said you always get the rulers you deserve.

I don't believe Ralph Reed, no. Not at all.

I respect the teachings of Jesus. I respect followers of Jesus who respect the beliefs of others and don't attempt to foist their beliefs on everyone around them. My "hostility" does not start until I'm told that I'm somehow less than because my Gods are found in other places than Jesus, and are worshipped in other ways.

As for the bill - as I've said before in this thread -there are so many more important things for Congress to be doing than recognizing religion - any religion, at this point. It was a silly, feel good resolution, and that's not why I want to send representatives to Washington. If people want to feel good, they can attend their various houses of worship (or groves, or temples, or bars, or whatever.) Congress is there to be about the business of the country, which right now is largely about protecting us from the excesses of the Administration. Too busy to vote on a resolution on impeachment. Can't get S-CHIP veto overriden. But they can vote on a warm fuzzy.

It's just silly.

Be the change you wish to see in the world. --Gandhi

As a Christian, I find this kind of declaration:

Whereas there are approximately 225,000,000 Christians in the United States, making Christianity the religion of over three-fourths of the American population;

by our government to be unsettling to say the least.

Whether it was the intent of the author(s) or not, this observation amounts to a tacit promotion of Christianity as the primary religion of this country. The fact that it was enacted by a Congress that is preoccupied with the business of pursuing a 2/3 veto-proof majority makes this "statistical analysis" of religion even more confounding, because it provides a possible solution for difficult legislation by inserting Christian-friendly language and/or benefits.

This is all so silly!

I have a lot of respect for my friend Congressman Miller, but Congress as a whole wasting our time on a resolution like this?

Why do we find the need to recognize anything other then what is important to everyone? S-chip, our growing homeless population, global warming, American jobs, a failing educational system, a quagmire in Iraq, our judicial system being hijacked by religious interests, farmers who can't make money, failed free trade agreements, etc.....

James Madison wrote that, "Better proof of reverence for God would not be to profane it by making it a topic of legal discussion." And we keep on making it a topic. This country was founded to escape religious persecution and we now find ourselves dueling between religious ideologies. We are quickly becoming what we tried to escape from.

I respect and value everyones personal and private faith, but making faith a public forum only devalues your faith and stands to divide a secular nation into religious wedges pitted against each other.

I agree with Congressman Miller's premise that every religion should be treated equally, but by honoring any religious views detracts from the very fibers this country was founded on.

Here's the 10 million dollar question. If we are going to honor religions in Congress, are we too going to recognize say Secular Humanists? You get my point.

Jay Ovittore
Candidate- 6th Congressional District

“The will of the people is the only legitimate foundation of any government, and to protect its free expression should be our first object.” Thomas Jefferson

Jay Ovittore

“The will of the people is the only legitimate foundation of any government, and to protect its free expression should be our first object.” Thomas Jefferson

Don't go there, Jay

The last thing that those of use who call ourselves secular humanists want is to be compared to a religion. That's argument plays right into the hands of far right wingers, who have attempted to sue schools for any trends they can label as "secular humanism." They say that "secular humanism" amounts to a religion and that *their* religion (Christianity, of course, in their chosen flavor) must thus be given equal time in the classroom.

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing
-Edmund Burke

I can't wait until they honor paganism

After all most Christian religious practices were pagan first.

And they killed most of us. Maybe there needs to be a holocaust resolution about Christians v Pagans. Wooo Hoooo!
News of the 10th district: See Pat Go Bye Bye,



Be the change you wish to see in the world. --Gandhi

They only thought they killed most of us.

Had a wonderful Yule celebration here at our house last night/this morning. It's also our wedding anniversary, so it's doubly special for us.

And now the light returns and grows. :) Blessed be.

Be the change you wish to see in the world. --Gandhi