OLF on the House calendar

Thought y'all might want to see that this bill has hit the supplemental calendar.

HJR 1906
Committee Substitute - Allred, Spear, Williams and Harrison (Primary
(Rules, Calendar, and Operations of the House) (2nd Edition)


Funny how BRAC is not suppose to be a political tool

but here is Virginia using it just for that. Warner and Webb are helping drive this.

“The committee is concerned that the Department of Defense continues to be inundated with requests to reconsider decisions made by the 2005 Defense Base Realignment and Closure (BRAC) Commission, which were approved by the President of the United States and reviewed by Congress without further action in November 2005,” the committee said in its report.

“The requests serve to undermine the intent and integrity of the 2005 BRAC process by requiring the military services to justify decisions made by an independent commission.”

Senate authorizers said the requests to reassess BRAC decisions “are made without regard to the resources and manpower required within the military services to faithfully and fully respond with the required information.”

The requests are not for a new study on Oceana, but for the Navy to accept the fact that Oceana is not a viable master jet base. These request see where continuing to sink millions of dollars at Oceana will only be a waste of time and money but also recognize that the safety to our pilots and local population around Oceana will be in peral until these issues are corrected. Something the city of virginia beach has stated they will not perform the required steps of condemning properties and removing these people from lands the city authorized them to develope in the first place.

These requests are made BECAUSE the independant BRAC commission stated that the problems around Oceana are terrible and the Department of Defense validated that commissions report.

The US Navy has also valadated the BRAC commission when Adm. Nathman stated "the fidelity at Oceana and Fentress is terrible, this is not a place to train young pilots" when he tried to justify the need for a second OLF in North Carolina.

So when people are asking and demanding these studies it is because the Navy has proven time and time again that Oceana is not a viable master jet base.

Oceana’s fate has become a point of contention among defense authorizers in both chambers. Rep. Solomon Ortiz’s (D-Texas) language in the readiness subcommittee mark roiled several members of the Virginia delegation. Ortiz directed the secretary of the Navy to assess the possibility of moving its master jet base out of Virginia Beach, and recommended a number of alternate locations, including in his own district.

“A request to the Secretary of the Navy to readdress a decision of the 2005 Defense BRAC round in order to satisfy parochial interests is not in the best interests of the United States Navy or the Department of Defense,” Senate authorizers said in their report.

While Texas is a long way aways, what Ortiz is showing is he recognizes that Oceana is not the future of naval aviation and he is doing his part to identify this problem as well as offer solutions to correct the problem. Notice that he did not require the Navy to come to his location, but offered up a highly underutilized airfield complex with an associated OLF. He also offered up other locations that could potentially be utilized. The Navy has accepted that split siting of the jets is the way to go with its plan to place 2 squadrons of 10 or splitting 20% of their fleet assets away from the synergistic maintenance and training hub at Oceana. If 20% is ok, then any percentage is acceptable. A flip-flop from their statements to the 1995 BRAC concerning redirecting the planes that were suppose to go to Cherry Point when Cecil Field was directed to close.

Ortiz has identified a problem and has provided the Navy with viable solutions to this problem. The solutions he has offered up will not require any additional (well maybe additional lands for an OLF in SC if MCAS Beaufort is included in this) lands to be taken. Ortiz recognizes the needs of the Navy first, something Virginia and the Navy is not recognizing.

Though report language is not usually part of conference negotiations, the issue was seized upon by Warner, who fought tooth and nail a couple years ago to save Oceana. The 2005 BRAC commission concluded, independently of the Pentagon’s recommendations, that development around the base was hazardous to pilots and residents, and was hampering the Navy’s ability to train pilots properly.

Where is Senator Dole and Burr on this one? The senate floor is where these two need to be everytime someone states that Oceana is or will be the master jet base of the future for the Atlanctic Fleet. Where is their input to the Senate authorizers asking why is the Navy spending $300 million in MY state when the validity of Oceana is still in jeopardy? Why is the Senate authorizers twisting this to say Oceana needs to stay? In one sentance, hampering the ability to train, safety of pilots and safety of residents was identifed and yet the senate feels Oceana is still viable? I dont get this one?

The commission urged that hundreds of F/A-18 Hornets and Super Hornets be relocated from Oceana to Cecil Field, a former Naval base outside Jacksonville, Fla.

Sorry, but the 2005 BRAC stated "realign" all assets to Cecil Field. It did not urge, suggest, plead, beg, hope that the Navy would move these assets, it stated MOVE them if the city of virginia beach did not come up with a plan to keep the assets.

According to reports, Navy leaders signaled their satisfaction with local officials’ plans to restrict development around the base and told lawmakers they expected to retain the base as long as commercial and residential growth is curbed.

If the Navy is satisfied with the progress the city is performing in curbing (this means stopping future encroachment) then the Navy is accepting that the plan DOD IG stated as flawed is acceptable to them? Sounds like some Admirals need to get a reality check and maybe should move over to the civilian sector. Virginia Beach and Chesapeake are not going to remove the 33,000+ people required to make the safety and training at Oceana viable. Admirals, wake up. Senate, wake up. If the Navy is accepting this plan, then the "fidelity" issue identified by all the admirals who have been in charge of this OLF process is being corrected and this second OLF is not required due to noise encroachment issues. Again, why is the Navy coming to us? Virginia Beach/Chesapeake are satisfactorily correcting the proplems they created as identified in these reports according to the Navy. No OLF is required.

Aint it funny how every arguement the Navy uses to justify this second OLF also is a nail in the coffin for the viability of Oceana?

Whould like to see what reports where completed from when DOD IG concluded in July 2006 that the plan Virginia Beach presented failed the requirements imposed by BRAC to today? Adm. Nathman's quote was stated in the same interview given when he finally heard that DOD would not require the Navy to pursue moving the plans to Cecil Field at the objections to the local population of Jacksonville for a reported cost of only $410.37 million (2005 BRAC notes). Yet the Navy is coming to North Carolina and spending $297 million on a runway to support a master jet base that is not viable in the first place? Adding capacities way above what is required to perform the military mission of training pilots to safely land on an aircraft carrier at sea. The move to Kingsville, Texas would cost about this or maybe less and Kingsville belongs to the Navy now.

The 2005 BRAC required the Secratery of Defense to find a new Atlantic master jet base. In that requirement, it also stated that every location was to be judged against reopening Cecil Field. Based on the needs of the Navy, Cecil Field must be reopened and the planes of Oceana must be realigned to that location.

If the Navy is utilizing need to justify coming to our state for an OLF, they first need to validate that once this OLF is built, Oceana's problems will be completely corrected. This will never happen. Oceana cannot curb and rollback the encroachment issues found around Oceana and Fentress. Our senate needs to include this in the decision process.

Unique, you keep lurking, I did not know this publication existed. Great catch.

missed a point, sorry

Virginia Beach officials spent much of the last two years battling the federal government to keep the jets in the city and notched a victory in January when the Defense Department’s inspector general decided that Oceana would remain the master jet base.

The DOD IG did not decided that Oceana would remain the master jet base, it accepted the fact that Jacksonville did not want the master jet base and would not pony up the money needed as part of the BRAC decision. With Jacksonville deciding not to take the jets a new home for the jets was not identified. The jets have to stay at Oceana until a new BRAC determines where they should be housed. That is where we are with Oceana today. At the next BRAC, the jets of Oceana will be realigned (moved) somewhere. It may be a long while before another BRAC is chaired because it is going to take a lot of money to build a green field to support a master jet base with associated OLF.
The Navy cannot afford to stop spending and building ships to build a master jet base someplace. Piss pour planing on the Navy's part is not a problem for the peopld of North Carolina to correct, nor is putting an OLF fixing the proplem.

The simple fact that Oceana is not a viable master jet base has been missed in a big way. Rep Ortiz did not miss it.

When the prez signed into law the 2005 BRAC in Nov 2005 there was no caviates placed to state if this did not happen then do this. It was assumned when BRAC wrote the findings on Oceana that:
1. Virginia Beach would be given an opertunity to keep the jets if they could curb and rollback encroachment.
2. Jacksonville would gladly accept the jets if Virginia Beach failed their plan.

It was inconceivable by BRAC based on the support of the state of florida that a fall back plan (or a third step) would be required so that provision was not put into the language of the findings.

In my opionion, the Navy has a few options, move the planes to Kingsville, reopen Cecil Field, or temporarily split the planes between Cherry Point and Beaufort until a new green field location is found. Keeping the planes at Oceana is not a viable option anymore.


for your assessment, parmea.

You broke down that double-speak gobbledy gook quite nicely.

Lurking - it's not just a job; it's an adventure!


This is a great wrap and summary of the whole friggin' mess. I got it bookmarked now.

I've Never Been to VA Beach

but I have been to Jacksonville.

The DOD IG did not decide that Oceana would remain the master jet base, it accepted the fact that Jacksonville did not want the master jet base.

And though Jax may be better than Oceana, I'd think it would still be far from a wonderful choice.

I suppose an OLF could go in some of those piney woods between Jax and Tallahassee, but I doubt those folks would like that idea any more than we did.

You can fool around with Yahoo maps and see things in satellite here.

If you click the check marks in the boxes on the left - it will take out all those annoying orange numbers in the map. Leave #1. It's on Jax.

That's still a lot of development if you're going to be 'surging' noisy airplanes -
but hey, seagulls are smaller than snowgeese.



Cecil field has

OLF Whitehouse thus no second OLF required.

Whitehouse belongs to the Navy today, and is in the active role.

In the yahoo map thing mentioned above, you can see cecil field by zooming down and west of jacksonville. To see the whitehouse, you can look just a might north of cecil field, about 5 miles or less.

to see kingsville, look for kingsville,tx from the main base, you will find its OLF north-west about 30 miles. orange grove

compare these two cities to virginia beach. Oceana is about 5 miles south west of Oceana. Oceana is in the center of virginia beach.

someone explain to me how Oceana is ever going to be clear of encroachment without the requirement of condomnation and emminent domain?

When you do look at these sites, use the satelite option to see all the houses around the bases. thats really telling.

when you zoom down on fentress or any of the runways at oceana, you will see a huge skid mark at the end of the runway. that is where the training gets accomplished. you can imagine the flight pattern by placing a paper clip over that where the paper clip covers up the skid mark and then curves to the left. an FCLP or fleet carrier landing pattern is basically an oval. Once the pilot hits the ground, he goes to full power takes back off, and then turns to the left and does it again. he needs about 1/4 mile lined up straight behind the skid mark and about 3/4 miles directly left of the skid mark for the return run....up to 5 planes will be in this pattern at 45 sec to 1 min apart at 130mph to keep proper spacing. When you do all this, and then put that oval over those skid marks you will see the people in the safety zones and then all the people that are in the noise zones.

You can do alot of this at many of the navy's airfields.

Havelock, nc
Beaufort, sc
Virginia beach, va
lexington park, va (Pax river, navy term, place where Navy planes are tested, this has an OLF box and a ground based catapult!)
Jacksonville, fl
kingsville, tx
meridian miss (you can actually see the box where the guy on the ground grades the landings, LSO shack on the south and the east runways) also not that there are two sets of black marks on these runways, one when doing normal operations and one left of center line are caused by FCLP operations.

BTW, the white lines with the little ticks on the edge is the carrier representation painted on the runway. Any runway can get this painted on it, roll out a portable "meat-ball" and put out a little house with a radio and ANY RUNWAY can perform emergency FCLP patterns.

Also, that painted pattern (east runway meridian miss) is the total length of the runway on a carrier. This is why I discredit putting an old existing carrier off the coast of North Carolina to perform these FCLP patterns. The guy needs practice hitting that tiny spot. Imagine your little leaguer going out to yankee stadium and having nolan ryan pitch to your kid who just graduated from tee-ball. Your kid knows how to swing a bat and hit a ball, why not do that??? same logic here, kinda extreme though on my part, but you get the idea.

These are just some of the sites the navy has under their control that can perform FCLP operations.

There are many more to look at

I personally use google with their map option tab.

I Quit Google Earth

when the download had some ... "spyware". What kind and what it did, I don't know but it turned me off.

But yeah. I "drove" to Smithfield from my house one day and it was pretty cool.

I should have known you'd be hot on the trail, parm. You Rock!


I just go to www.google.com and hit the map option, no download required, not as jumpy as yahoo is.