I am inclined to support Randy Voller. He may be rough around the edges and more than a little impatient, but that's what I like most about him. The fact that he's not a well-oiled insider is nothing but plus in my book.
Is he perfect? Of course not. Who is?
I understand that some of his actions may have overstepped his authority according to the Democratic Party rules of organization. If that's the clearly the case, he should apologize, fix things, and get back to work. If it's more of a judgment call, I say give him the benefit of the doubt and let him do his job.
We'll find out soon enough if he can deliver. If he can't, we should fire him and move on. But in the meantime, the least we can do is get out of his way and give him room to run.
One of the reasons I'm running for governor is to start a new conversation with a new kind of campaign that takes place in full public view. I may get my butt handed to me, but so be it. I'm sick to death of all the backroom nonsense that gets in the way of doing real work.
To those who say we can't be
To those who say we can't be having these conversations in public because Republicans will use it against us, remember this:
The Republican regime in Raleigh is not a legitimate government. They gained power through cheating and they will continue to cheat no matter what. Let's not compromise our own ideals by worrying about what they will or will not do.
They will cheat and lie in order to divide and conquer. That's all they have to offer.
Voller is a good guy
Randy is a great guy and I know he wants to do what he believes will help Democrats win. However, I do not think he's done what he needs to bring the various factions of the party together. Almost immediately after winning he did not do the bridge building or HR to win folks over. When you win by only 11 votes and nearly lost to a man who wasn't even in the room, that's cause to really work hard at building relationships across the state with the east, west, and central NC Democrats as well as moderate, conservative and progressive members of our party. That's what made Jerry Meek successful and why people listened to David Parker.
You may be right
As I've said on many occasions, I'm not an insider and can't stand dealing with crap like this. Lord only knows why anyone would want this job in the first place.
In watching the early cycles of all this, it looks to me like folks were gunning for him on day one ... and that he may have given them plenty of reasons to complain. Gary Pearce, for example, has been a vocal critic to whom a lot of people listen.
So sure ... any new leader should be doing as much as possible to unite the organization he's leading. Or in this case, herding cats is probably a more appropriate term.
I agree with you about Jerry Meek. He reached out to everyone, including progressives, despite our relatively small presence in North Carolina. Parker? Not so much. From what I can tell, progressives have been nearly invisible to the party over the past few cycles.
I don't have any magic answers. All I know is that as long as we're fighting each other, we're not fighting Republicans. And that is a complete abrogation of our moral responsibilities.
The Republican regime in Raleigh is not a legitimate government. It is in place solely from the result of illegal redistricting ... otherwise known as cheating. If we can't unify Democrats around that simple fact, we might as well give up and go home.
PS I don't know Randy or anyone else
I think my view of all this is more like the view of a regular person. Up until this complaint was filed, I had no idea that there were concerns by anyone. It's one thing to say perception is reality. It's another to be shaping that perception.
Progressives Key to Parker's Support
I believe that Parker's support largely stemmed from progressives in the Party. When Faison ran it was grassroots progressives against the establishment pick. Much of Parker's supporters in the bid to oust him were those some grassroots progressives. Whether or not those folks were instrumental to the running of the party is another item entirely.
I certainly agree that there were and are those who believe that Randy is an illegitimate chair and would naturally gun for him. However, I know that if I were in his position I would sit down with Gary Pearce and others and talk, have a dialogue, and maybe even bring them on board. Backroom deals are bad, circling the wagon in full public view is worse.
Randy could invalidate this petition by saying mea culpa, let's get back to work. I hope he does.
And pray tell what is it
That Chairman Voller needs to redeem himself of? Insulting some of the same people who succeeded in wounding Parker last year and curtailing Parker's capability to find out what had been going on. Voller did not kiss their rings and immediately bow and scrape to these people, thank goodness, nor should he have. He has an open door and will call back if called. This absolute garbage about his not being available is a set of lies and contrivances. This crowd of people are pettifoggers and prevaricators playing sanctimonious. For there to be any coalescence in the Democratic Party, all the sides have to come together, not have Voller offer his neck to one and all, gratuitously. What we have here is war by other means, namely constant distraction by people who will not be appeased until they are in control.
The author's mention of Gary Pearce is of course a joke, he was and is opposed to Parker and to Voller and I would think has worked with some of the miscreants in the ongoing affair. What status does Pearce have, other than as a folk hero to himself. The thought of Voller going and kissing Pearce's ring is absurd on many, many levels. Now it would be good if Pearce visited Goodwin House and talked with the Chair. That would be in proper order.
Check out the thread NCDP v. NCDP
It is a link to a petition that may have some substance. We have yet to hear Voller's response.
I actively oppose gerrymandering. Do you?
I've checked out the petition
And I've read the POO - Much Ado About Nothing! This is nothing more than a repeat performance from pretty much the same folks who attacked David Parker last year and tried to get him to resign.
The pretext is different this time - but the real reason is the same.
Wake County Verified Voting
Sith Lord searching for new apprentices like Darth Hahn
Parker's support was largely progressive, and it is also correct that they were largely not the same people who were running the party at that time. Given the shellacking the party took in 2010 the then-party leaders are not deserving of power except to themselves. They tried to take out Parker, and failed.
In no way can Randy Voller be viewed as an illegitimate chair. He ran a transparent campaign and won the election on Feb 2. I question why you would even suggest this casually, as if it is in any way an accepted view. Could you please explain? Does this resultant 'gunning' include planting stories with Gary Pearce laced with half truths and complete lies? The same man who suggested that NC could not be won by Obama in 2012 and wanted him not to seek reelection or is he the "godfather" who picks people he likes and deems them to be the "future" of the party? Or is he the guy who mentors his chosen pupils like a Sith Lord such as Mr. Hahn? I am sure Mr. Pearce is a "nice guy" but where was he when I as protesting in the 1960's and standing up for Civil Rights? Isn't he the guy that worked against pardoning the Wilmington 10? Pearce believes the state is center-right and he is wrong on that count and recent polling proves it. The people are are coming out of their slumber and he is on the wrong side of history as are the dupes who drink his Kool-Aid. I prefer something more organic and less processed than a diluted message sold to me by a shill who has given us John Edwards and countless others who he proclaims to be the "next coming"...
Way too soon
Consider this a warning; name-dropping is bad enough, and doing so via caricature from the prequel abomination is even worse. But attacking somebody who's just suffered a horrific loss is so far out of bounds you might as well just go ahead and take a drop without even looking for the ball.
Make your arguments with at least a modicum of respect, or take them elsewhere.
Have you lost your mind?
Leave Nation Hahn out of this, you egregious, odious jerk.
Out of bounds
Comments like yours disgust me. Have the fortitude to sign your real name if you are going to attack my friends in such a heinous and uncalled for way. coward.
Fuck You Personally, whoever the hell you are.
I don't really have an opinion on whatever the hell is happening here, but I feel the need to chime in due to "EJ Smith"s slander of Nation Hahn.
What a massive pile of shit. Do you seriously think you'll gain any points by anonymously slandering one of the best examples of the Democratic Party who had to bury his wife two weeks ago? Nation isn't perfect (none of us are) but he's 1000 times the man that you or I will ever, ever be.
You, sir, are a flatulant, gaping asshole. If this is someone who Randy Voller has on his side, then I don't want to be on the side of Randy Voller.
It's my complaint
And this is the only comment I will make on it.
The Plan of Organization requires any complaint about an action taken at a party meeting to be sent to the proper persons within 10 days after the action complained of. That's the reason for the timing. That's it.
We have questions about the actions Mr. Voller took and the votes that occurred on April 28. The proper place to address those is before the Council of Review. We look forward to presenting our case and are certain that Jim Slaughter and the Council of Review will treat it fairly and properly according to the rules. It would be unfair to Mr. Voller and the Party to comment publicly beyond that, so I have not and will not. You will find that this paragraph is essentially the same as any statement I have made to any media person who has called me about this.
I did not provide the complaint to James, and neither did anyone else on the Petition, as far as I know. While it is a public document, as are all things in our transparent and democratic Party, it is a Party matter, and I look forward to addressing it under the Plan of Organization.
I will not address the personal attacks above, other than to chuckle.
John D. Burns
"Man is free at the moment he wishes to be." -Voltaire
I appreciate the explanation and look forward to seeing how all this gets worked through.
when i said "above"
I should have said "in the other thread".
"Man is free at the moment he wishes to be." -Voltaire
PS Conflicted about parties
I confess to a lot of dissonance about the role of parties and their institutional status. Sort of like I'm conflicted about the role of corporations as entities that have government recognition. I'm sure no one would intentionally design the system we have today given the chance to start over.
I wrote about that here, but it's all meta-meandering, and not worth the time or effort to grapple with today, if ever. Maybe in another life.
Thanks again for weighing in. I hope it all works out for the best.
I can already see
that bringing this up for discussion may have been a bad idea. Maybe the world isn't ready for honest-to-god transparency.
I'm moving this thread off the front page. It's too frustrating to have to look at all day.
How say you illegitimate, my lords?
Sorry to offend. I have been around for a long time, and it's been a long life and this wine ain't vinegar yet.
Of course I am sorry for Mr. Hahn's recent loss. Such a loss would leave most men frozen with shock, I felt he held up remarkably well at such a traumatic time, it speaks to his character.
That aside, I am still wondering about the suggestion that Chairman Voller is for any reason to be considered "an illegitimate chair" so it is understood that any person "would naturally gun for him." No, that is just wrong, that is. He was elected in a free and fair campaign, and the certain YD's that have been attacking him ever since need to explain themselves for those attacks.
Is this allusion the opening salvo of the next whispering campaign against the chair? Because there is no good reason to make that comment otherwise. If the standard is to become that the only legitimate election is one with the results one desires, these young people have a hard lesson in democracy to learn.
I apologize to the friends of Mr. Hahn, and ask forgiveness. I also want to know why his friends in public relations and media refuse to accept the results of the election of Feb 2. They have not drawn breath since that day without undermining Randy Voller. Why is that? What is at stake here, that they cannot accept that their serial candidates (all 3 of them) either quit, or were defeated?
The fact that somebody has suffered a tragic loss
... is NOT sufficient to make it publicly unmentionable that he was being mentored by Gary Pearce.
Even if Nation himself has to be temporarily excused from actively championing his and Gary's vision, the vision itself remains debatable on its own merits (or lack thereof):
“Gary called for a Democratic Moses recently. It is an apt comparison because we are in the desert as far as the eye can see. Every time I see a key legislative debate it feels as if Senator Josh Stein and Representative Deborah Ross are largely alone in offering a counter narrative. It is disconcerting that we also have little infrastructure in place to allow Eric Mansfield, Cal Cunningham, Grier Martin, and others the ability to offer their response to the current actions of the folks on Jones Street.
“Beyond Moses, however, we need new ideas. I am concerned by the number of progressives who believe that the way that we will win in the future is to simply bash Art Pope, slam the Governor and the General Assembly as out of touch, and attack their ideas. Simply being a Cassandra ain’t going to cut it. We’ll be as disregarded as she was in the myths of old.
“We have to offer new ideas and a new narrative for North Carolina. And North Carolina isn’t alone — this is an issue in states across our country. After fifty years of gains created by progressives on the federal and state level we have retreated over the last fifteen years. We have found ourselves protecting our gains as they fall under an all out attack by conservatives which has led to a dramatic shift of our standing on the spectrum.
“Traditionally conservatives fought to defend and conserve, while progressives advocated for new ideas and bold solutions. That tradition has been turned on its head and that is one reason we’ve been losing of late. People are hurting economically in rural North Carolina, for example, and my fellow progressives have found themselves stuck defending the status quo while conservatives call for change. When you are hurting, a new idea, even if it is a bad idea, sounds better than the status quo.
“It is time that we move beyond the tired narratives and beyond simply calling for our progress to be protected. It is time to call for real progress once more. It is time to offer new ideas and reach for the brass ring."
There's a time and place for everything
As far as the "time" is concerned, Nation is likely dealing with a multitude of painful issues, from a gut-wrenching sense of loss to trying to figure out who he is and how to move forward in this life in the absence of his precious wife. By calling him out in such a high-exposure forum, and challenging the things he believes in, you and EJ are forcing him to engage in a debate he's not ready for, or leave it alone and not defend himself, neither of which are anywhere close to fair, much less empathetic. The intent may not have been to kick him when he's down, but that is surely the result. If (and it's a big "if") you folks can understand that, then maybe we're a lot closer to overall reconciliation in the Party.
As far as the "place", this is not a public forum. It's a privately-owned website, and the owner has dedicated many years and not an insubstantial amount of money to maintaining it. We don't have many rules, but keeping comments from moving into the intolerably obnoxious category is one of them. Granted, that may be a subjective evaluation that is not always shared by all, depending on their point of view. But in my opinion, the comment in question met that criteria and then some. That's pretty much the limit of my efforts to justify something that needs no justification, so I hope it suffices.
I have not seen
anyone question the legitimacy of Voller's Chairmanship or his election to it.
Well Mr. Eaton, you may have problems with vision
There have been a number of challenges to Mr. Voller by various groups, most with ties to the Parker assassination of May 2012, which resulted in the imposition of Brunner into the interim-ED position and Whalen into control of monies for Coordinated Campaign, over the protestations of Parker. The run up to the election of Feb 2, 2013 had a lot of the same bunches of people, consultants, pundits, YDs galore (they will save us, right), and some older "establishment" types, sprinkled with some country club folks going nuts, resulting in the much vaunted and blown attempt to impose Etheridge. Now, having failed to seat THEIR candidate, the opposition are intent, as admitted by one young officer from western Carolina, to causing all the friction and dissension possible for the next two years for NCDP - again with the same players. This ongoing friction will cause Chairman Voller to look bad and the keep party in disarray. The "rape" episode in Greensboro was tweeted by a female YD, (such courage) using someone else's phone, and that was promoted by some media savvy dissidents into an "incident" which someone then got to John Stewart's folks, and he ran - total libel. Mr. Voller's comment was perfectly proper use of English, save for the immature reactions of some young folks. But, it supposedly proved the point of the dissidents that the party is in chaos and "Vladimir" Voller did it. Right, that is their twitter slander site, which is posted as a "parody" but is damned vicious. "Heh, heh, we will run this scam and slander out of sight of adults". Oh by the way, seems to have been visited by some adults dissidents. It is now time for whatever real adults are engaged in this fiasco to stop and support Chairman Voller. Sanctioning the running of a "slander site" against the Chair is contemptible, even perhaps to some of the legally inclined. So, the prospect is: they cannot simply remove Mr. Voller, but they can persecute him with every false allegation under the sun, constantly and consistently, weekly and monthly for the next two years, the Party be damned. Are you part of this childish charade and do you intend to continue? I have to conclude your aim is to destroy the Party, which is composed of far more than the current set of destructive malcontents and young piranha.
But, mistake not the intent of this group of people to destroy the Democratic Party in NC to achieve their own immediate and selfish aims. Mr. Eaton, do you stand with the Party or with the destructive dissidents? Do you support and approve of a twitter slander site against Mr. Voller. Declare yourself sir.
I won't respond to anonymous posters
I've been posting here under my real name for five years.
You replied to my comments on your J-J video.
So obviously you do, you just answer selectively. Who chooses for you?
Searching for the promised land--
I don't personally know Mr. Pearce. I know him through his writings and blogs and association with ***Carter Wrenn**.
If he is searching for the new Moses to lead the people and the new Joshua to take them to the promised land and defeat the GOP, what role is he playing in the narrative?
The name is not the post, the content tells the tale.
The content is what you respond to, Mr. Eaton, the content, not the name. Just putting your real name on it does not make it valid or good, just as a pseudonym does not make it less credible or false.
The poster stated with accuracy " Now, having failed to seat THEIR candidate, the opposition are intent, as admitted by one young officer from western Carolina, to causing all the friction and dissension possible for the next two years for NCDP - again with the same players. This ongoing friction will cause Chairman Voller to look bad and the keep party in disarray."
His question was simple, and I ask it of all of you, "Are you part of this childish charade and do you intend to continue? "
Will you answer?
Are Democrats the party of democracy or not? Do we follow our own Procedures as written, or not?
More to the point, are we going to let a group of media consultants who feed the narrative with lies, character assassination and dirty tricks manipulate their way to the control of this party, or support the man elected Feb 2, who is a proven winner within the party and in public office, as well as being a proven organizer and fundraiser?
Our elected chair is certainly my choice.
If the Republican Party weren't so disgusting
and if unaffiliated voters could run for office in North Carolina without clearing thousands of hurdles, it would be easy to understand why people would want to distance themselves from the Democratic Party.
The tone and tenor of this discussion is really frustrating. I'm sorry I started it.