A Sign of Things To Come-Censorship

So tonight I received a message from Andrew Bates at the Facebook group Stop Liddy Dole 2008. The message was sent in support of David Young to be our next party chair. I happen not to support David for multiple reasons; his views on collective bargaining, workers rights and verified voting are questionable at best and I don't feel the sitting chair of the NCDP and Governor should crown anyone the new chair. That is the State Executive Committee voting body's job. I also did not feel it was appropriate to use the Dole group to send out his message and I happened to be an administrator for the group. So as I had access to send my own message I sent the following:

I just received a message from this group asking for support for David Young. I will say this...we have worked very hard to turn this state blue. All that work will go to waste if we knight David Young at the upcoming SEC meeting this weekend.

I am sorry, but I can not and will not support a candidate who has been on the record as against collective bargaining(the unions) and verified voting(because we know that's not important to our Democracy). The opposition in Young's past to these and other Democratic Party core principals is disconcerting and sure to repeat itself in the future.

The Unions have given the NCDP and Democratic Candidates $2 million in contributions in 2008 and would be sorely missed, not only as a contributor financially, but we lose the foot soldiers in the Unions who go door to door to help spread the word about our candidates. I can almost be certain that if the Unions leave our side, they are not coming back and I nor any of you can afford that risk.

We have progressed as a state and as a party in North Carolina. Young does not represent progression, he is regression. We need to move our party forward and keep our train rolling down the track we are on.

I will not ask you to support any of the other candidates, but I will ask that you do your homework before Saturday. Our Democratic Party and it's ideals are at risk. All the hard work we have done as a party and as individuals is at risk. That risk is David Young.

Turns out, that was not appreciated much by Young's folks and I have now been removed as an administrator. I guess that is a sign of things to come. Disappointing at best. Censorship of dissenting views is concerning to me within our party, as I thought we just voted out the party that does that.

Comments

I'm sorry Jay

I appreciated your email, and I'm really sorry that you have been punished for stating your views.

"Keep the Faith"

grrrrr

Jay you have my phone number (919.395.1794), and you know you could have called me with this concern. It would have been nice if you had at least dropped me a note linking to this post, allowing me to respond in a more timely manner.

Far from being silenced, Jay Ovittore had the last word on the matter.

I closed the group because I didn't want anything that could be perceived as being "administered" by the NCDP being used to campaign for one chair candidate or the other.

I don't think people signing up for a group designed to retire Sen Dole expected (or necessarily appreciated) getting one sided information about an election between Democrats. I regret that the group was, in my view, misused thus.

The group was closed to everybody, as it's purpose has been achieved and that was the only fair way to prevent it for being a forum for Democratic flame wars. Dole is chilling at the Watergate never to be seen in NC again, and Sen Hagan is busy undoing the damage.

Regarding collective bargaining, the NCDP would like to "...reassert our fundamental belief in the collective bargaining process as a means of serving the interests of both public and private employees and employers. Those interests include better productivity, fair and adequate employee compensation and benefits, and safe, harmonious, and healthy working conditions." http://ncdp.org/platform

AboutFace

I got the same emails. I "left" the group because I thought the first email was inappropriate (really spam) to use it to promote a specific candidate on an unrelated topic. Jay's email was an understandable response but equally inappropriate. I don't think it's censorship but I do think it's a stupid abuse of Facebook, one that makes me want to avoid such groups in the first place.

PS: Andrew J Bates, please don't ever bother me for any reason again.

I tried to leave the group for the same reason

But, Facebook for Blackberry would not allow me at the time. Will leave it today. I think it would have been different if the original email had been from an admin who was actually RUNNING for something. "Hey, I don't want to spam you, but just wanted to let you know about a new group I've put together for my run at XXXX."

Jesus Swept ticked me off. Too short. I loved the characters and then POOF it was over.
-me

Totally appropriate! Really.

This one time at band camp, when I was a serious candidate for Congress, I like totally went off on my MySpace page against this cute guy that cut in line...

Well, long story short.

Say Goodnight, Jay.

Do you plan on sticking around,

and maybe contributing something substantial, or did you merely join BlueNC so you could take a childish poke at Jay?

He might be a little rough around the edges sometimes. But he's earned the damned right to speak his mind, especially considering the misuse of the Facebook contact list. And I guarantee you, the things he talked about in his message are on the minds of a lot of folks.

If you're a supporter of David Young, you need to think twice before coming here with a cute little attitude. It just might backfire on you.

Let's put a little perspective on this

This is about something that happened on Facebook?..........and it's being called censorship?

Seriously, this reminds me of the crap the Wake County Democratic Party people were posting. Folks are welcome to post personal diaries, but when the finger pointing and name calling starts it's over. I spent hours moderating on site and through many, many emails the crap that went on with WCDP and I'm done with it.

I take Greg's word for it that Jay's reply was inappropriate. I trust his judgment.

Supporters of David Young - and all of the candidates are welcome here - with or without cute little attitudes.



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Vote Democratic! The ass you save may be your own.

Betsy

This isn't about Facebook at all. This is about the NCDP silencing, or trying to silence, dissenting views within it's party. The medium should not matter. It is about the voting members of the SEC of our party voting on it's leaders and not being told what to do by current chair Meek or our governor. If they would have started a separate group in favor of Young and sent a message to those people, I would have never responded in the way that I did.

The message I sent is in the above post. I did not encourage anyone to vote for a specific candidate, but asked them to educate themselves. I did post information that has been readily available on this site on some of Young's past views and positions, which people should know about before voting blindly at the recommendation of two people in our party.

The fact is the only admin left on this Facebook group is Jerimee Richer who works for the NCDP. Everyone can form their own opinions on that, I personally like Jerimee and wish him no ill will for doing what he is paid to do. The people in our party do need to know that this sort of activity takes place...even in our party.

Jay Ovittore

“The will of the people is the only legitimate foundation of any government, and to protect its free expression should be our first object.” Thomas Jefferson

Is there just the teeniest little chance...

This isn't about Facebook at all. This is about the NCDP silencing, or trying to silence, dissenting views within it's party.

Jay, JayMeister, Jaaaay, is there just the teeniest little chance the party happens to take the microphone away from people wrapped in tinfoil?

And I'm just guessing here.

Jay

If Jerimee is the only one left it seems that you and Andrew were both dropped as Admins. Andrew fired a round, you rebutted. It was a measured response and you both got canned. I wouldn't project this onto the NCDP on the basis of that action.

Jay, you aren't only a thumb sucking idiot...

You are a liar.

The message I sent is in the above post. I did not encourage anyone to vote for a specific candidate, but asked them to educate themselves.

Let's review...

I just received a message from this group asking for support for David Young. I will say this...we have worked very hard to turn this state blue. All that work will go to waste if we knight David Young at the upcoming SEC meeting this weekend.

You asked Democrats to vote against David Young, not educate themselves. You messed up. Publicly. Then posted here to brag about it.

Say goodnight Jay.

Again, I do not rise in support of David Young, because he needs none. I rather sit to squash the asshats that would wear me.

Jay

Please read Greg's well thought out, measured responses. I simply can't see beyond the fact that this is an argument that is NOT a product of the NCDP, but rather the product of two people creating drama. I didn't receive the emails, but I trust Greg when he says neither action was appropriate. I'm sure that I'm reacting in part due to the nonsense that recently went on here with a person taking out a personal vendetta against the Wake County Democratic Party. However, I'm also reacting to the fact that an adult claims that being removed from admin status on a facebook group is censorship. Furthermore, the group in question is not an official NCDP group and you are claiming this censorship is at the hands of the NCDP.

Jerimee created the BlueNC group. He is not an owner or moderator at BlueNC so the lines between NCDP and BlueNC don't blur, however out of the goodness of his heart he has pulled us out of the pits of tech hell a time or two....or three. Jerimee understands the value of social networking and he is very good at organizing efforts using these tools. However, if he saw fit to remove an admin from BlueNC's facebook group - especially since there are admins who have nothing to do with running BlueNC listed as admins - that would not be Jerimee speaking for BlueNC no more than your being removed as an admin from the Dole facebook group is Jerimee speaking for the NCDP.

Jerimee has done so much to help Democrats running for office and working in the trenches on his own time. You know this and if you don't, you should. Your accusation of censorship by the NCDP is unfair and unfounded. Your actions/words were inappropriate. There were consequences.



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Vote Democratic! The ass you save may be your own.

Just to clarify

I just want to clarify that there was an extensive list of admins added to the group by it's creator, who was Dan Spuller. We all had equal access to admin responsibilities. The reason the original message teed me off, was my name is listed as an admin on that page visibly and it appears as the message is sent by all the admins. That is why I felt it appropriate to respond and make it clear. As I said above, I like Jerimee and understand what he gets paid to do by he party. The fact remains that he alone had to remove every other admin to remain as the sole admin. That may or may not have been a directive from the party, but he should realize that because he wears the hat that he does, it can appear that way.

I think you do a wonderful job as a moderator and as an admin here on this site Betsy. I want you to ask yourself how you would feel if something you really didn't agree with was sent out with your name attached or associated with it. That was my situation and I felt I had to do something to clarify my position.

I don't know what had gone on at the WCDP, but I am certain that I feel like I was justified in my response and I am certain that now matter what the medium, being silenced...is being silenced. That is what appears to have happened. There are a few more details that I did not and will not post, because it would drag the names of others into this discussion. I received a phone call from Young's camp 10 minutes after I sent my message, they were doing "damage control", but I felt that it was inappropriate to discuss the private conversation.

Point is, we can not think that in an organized system of politics that this doesn't occur. It is the ugly underbelly of politics everywhere. Even in NC and even in our Democratic Party.

I would guess what is going on for me is much like going to church and questioning your faith. I guess I will concentrate on issues and forget about candidates and party for now(much like the unions). I have worked very hard for party and for candidates over the years, unfortunately the party system is a "what have you done for me lately" atmosphere. Not falling lock-step is frowned upon and those who do not obey the powers that be are cast out. So it is what it is. But I do have the right to free speech and this little dog barks loud sometimes. I just wanted the chance to explain a little further to you Betsy, out of respect.

Jay Ovittore

“The will of the people is the only legitimate foundation of any government, and to protect its free expression should be our first object.” Thomas Jefferson

If something was sent out with my name on it

and I didn't approve of it, I would ask the sender to correct the situation. If that person was unwilling to, I would have consulted with the others and asked permission to send a message to group members simply letting them know that I did not agree with the prior message and had not been consulted about it. I would not have taken the opportunity, though, to stake my claim.....which should have been clear by the fact that I asked for a correction. I would also have updated my facebook page. Good heavens, you're friends with everyone on facebook. I bet that would have reached even more people than this group email did.

I can understand your anger. I have no problem with personal diaries, but I've been pretty consistent that BlueNC isn't the place for personal vendettas. While I don't think this had reached that point and I know Jerimee would not have contributed to an escalation of the situation, it is only fair that I do my best to nip it before it gets to that point.

Honestly, enough people read BlueNC that you would probably get more mileage out of your efforts if you wrote something in support of the candidate you prefer. It also would be completely appropriate to mention something along the lines of, "without my approval my name was used on a letter endorsing David Young for state party chair. I would like to set the record straight. I support __________ and this is why." Avoid the drama. No accusations of censorship (which it wasn't) necessary. Trust me - you say your name was used without your permission and folks will get the point. That's a diary I would welcome. It's constructive and informative. It's Friday. What are you waiting for?



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Vote Democratic! The ass you save may be your own.

Why would anyone join BlueNC to take a poke at Jay?

Jay who?

I joined to poke at the Colmes version of a Republican around here (named Smitty I think), then saw this juvenile nonsense from a name I recognized as one of our former nominees for Congress.

You know that's a real job, right?

As for the Party nominations, David Young doesn't need my help or hindrance.

He's got it, and will serve even you well against your better judgment.

Just because of me?

You joined BlueNC because of me?

Well...I'm honored.

"Colmes version of a Republican", that's cute. Hey, and you even capitalized republican.

Ya gotta lead a pretty boring life, my friend.

:

The best thinking is independent thinking.

Say you!

He might be a little rough around the edges sometimes.

I expect a retraction in The Pilot on my front doorstep in the AM.

I've never even heard Cousin Coble speak so harshly at the 19th hole.

Wow.

You're wrong about something, Gosh. Jay Ovittore was not a "nominee". He was a candidate in the Primary. However, he was defeated by Theresa Sue Bratton. We all know how well that worked out.

You seem adept at making personal insults - are you equally good at discussing policies and politics?

Thanks Linda

You're wrong about something, Gosh. Jay Ovittore was not a "nominee". He was a candidate in the Primary. However, he was defeated by Theresa Sue Bratton.

Your clarification that Jay Ovittore was a loser long before this implosion is duly noted.

OK...we're done

You're gone for a while. Your comments are not adding any substance.

OOOPS - that's for Gosh, not Linda.



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Vote Democratic! The ass you save may be your own.

Thanks, Betsy.

N/t

Very cool, James

I think you're beginning to have fun with this whole book marketing thing. You seemed a bit reluctant at first. I know the in-person stuff is a little tougher on hermits like us, but the more online support you build the more likely it is that you'll find online friends in your live audiences.

I love watching this unfold. I'm so proud of you.



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Vote Democratic! The ass you save may be your own.