Show me your papers?

When I go to vote in the Democratic primary on May 6, 2014, I will greet the poll workers I have known for years, and then I will request a ballot. One of them will ask to see my photo ID. I will refuse to show it.

The requirement to have and show a photo ID in order to vote is a requirement to own property, and it comes at a cost. It violates two sections of the North Carolina Constitution.

Sec. 10. Free elections.
All elections shall be free.

Sec. 11. Property qualifications.
As political rights and privileges are not dependent upon or modified by property, no property qualification shall affect the right to vote or hold office.

I encourage you to consider participating in this modest act of civil disobedience. And when you are denied your right to vote on May 6, 2014, I hope you will join me in a class action lawsuit against the illegal actions of the government in Raleigh. We can make this happen. Spread the word.

I refuse.


In this country, we are all

In this country, we are all innocent until proven guilty. Voter id says, we are all guilty until we can prove ourselves innocent.

Your ID is not Property like your Car

No offense, but I'm pretty sure that "property" was to mean actual land. This was to ensure that whether or not you were a land owner or not, you could vote. Technically, your ID is a Government Issued item, which can be taken back from the Government. So in the end, you don't fully own it. So since you don't own your own ID, you are still not required to own property, even as you word it. You are presenting your Government Issued item which confirms identity.

You freely give your ID when you go out to drink, when you buy cigarettes, when you write a check, and when you're pulled over by the cops. Why is it an issue to just show some ID when you go and vote? When you buy something, would you refuse to show your receipt on the way out? (if required) This is your proof of who you are, so proudly show it. It's not a matter of infringing on any rights. It's called being a citizen.

The government can take your land, too

You don't "fully own it" if a bank is holding a mortgage note on it. And even if you do, the government can still take it away for various reasons (confiscation for drug crimes, eminent domain, not paying property taxes).

The spirit behind the removal of poll taxes wasn't to equalize landowners with those who don't, it was to get rid of barriers and hurdles in the voting process. Forcing someone who doesn't have a driver's license to travel to the DMV is a hurdle, plain and simple. The goal isn't to make them flash an ID, the goal is to make them stay home on voting day. Period.

If you pay the NC DMV for it, it is a tax.

If you have to pay for the documents to obtain it, like women with multiple name changes do, it is a hefty one, costing $10 per certificate, and possibly weeks to obtain, if done by mail, or trips to county seats plus the $10 per certificate.

I am "pretty sure" this is a barrier to free access to a NC Constitutional right to vote. I am also more than "pretty sure" land is not mentioned as the only form of property, just property. When I pay for my plastic license, it becomes my property. The privilege to use it is a separate issue.

An ID requirement infringes on my right to vote, it does not prove my citizenship in any way.

Legally recognized non-citizens have drivers licenses, too, to permit them to drive and prove insurance coverage, not citizenship.

If they meant actual land

they should have said actual land. They didn't. In fact, the constitution doesn't qualify the word "property" in any way.

Regarding all that other stuff you mentioned, the constitution doesn't address any of it. Driving a car is not a right guaranteed by the constitution. Neither is buying cigarettes. None of it is relevant to this discussion.

Voting is different. Voting has in the past been suppressed by legislative action, which is the exact intention of the current voter ID scheme.

And just to say it, if you believe every citizen should be required to carry something issued by the government in order to be able to exercise a guaranteed right, you seem have shown up in the wrong century. You'd be more suited to Germany in the 1940s.

James, Here is my

Here is my question to you, then. If this right is guaranteed to every citizen, and I agree that it is guaranteed, how then do you prove if you are a citizen or not? What's stopping another person from taking my place, or someone from another country from voting in one of our elections? Do we just trust everyone that they are who they say they are?

Personally, as someone who has had their identity stolen, I do not. And I believe it's a bit too early in this conversation to start bringing up Nazi activities. We're having a conversation, not a flame war.

Not too early

I am very uncomfortable with anything even remotely resembling a state-issued identification card. It's bad enough that we have to have state-issued passports, but then again, nobody is guaranteed the right to travel abroad.

But here in my home state, the idea that I cannot fulfill my obligation to vote as a citizen without showing my papers is unthinkable to me.

You've drunk the voter suppression kool aid, a scheme designed to make it harder for people without transportation, money, and official documents to vote. That has been the plan all along, and it is coming together beautifully ... despite the fact that there is no evidence of a problem that needs to be solved. And the cost of solving that non-existent problem will dramatically exceed the few million that McCrory talks about.

How much are you willing to spend on this scheme? Is $100 million too much over the next ten years?

You prove who you are when you register

to vote. This fact is consistently overlooked in this discussion. Also, you have to sign your name to get a ballot; that can be matched to your registration form.

Of course this whole business is a solution looking for a problem.

I actively oppose gerrymandering. Do you?

Here's my question ...

Here is my question to you, then. If this right is guaranteed to every citizen, and I agree that it is guaranteed, how then do you prove if you are a citizen or not? What's stopping another person from taking my place, or someone from another country from voting in one of our elections? Do we just trust everyone that they are who they say they are?

Here's my question for you. Let's say this law is passed.

What's to prevent some local campaign staffers, working in cohoots with some corrupt local elections officials, to cast ballots for people that didn't show up at the polls? The corrupt elections officials can testify the voters had their id checked and the voter, who didn't show up, wouldn't know their vote had been cast without their permission unless they bothered to look it up.

It doesn't make elections "fool proof" or any more honest.

One of the things that's overlooked with the current system is that you have to be in cohoots with corrupt elections officials in order to game the system the way it is now or you have to put an inordinate amount of time into finding out who casts a ballot in person or by absentee or order to cast a vote for a dead person or someone that stayed home. That doesn't change with a photo ID system.

The only way I can think of to absolutely prove that the person who showed up to cast a ballot is to take a fingerprint and place it on file with the sign-in book at the local board of elections. Or, at the very least, take a photo of each person showing up to vote and have that on file, matched to each person that signed in to take a ballot.

How do you feel about that?

Ask anybody...

...who's ever worked the door at a night club about fake IDs.

You get taxed...

...on property that is not land.

You don't get taxed on you

You don't get taxed on your ID. How about the guarantee of the free election, is my election free to me if someone else impersonated me and took my vote?

The poll tax does not hold water either, there is no tax to vote in this legislation.

If you bring the ID to my house and put it in my hands

I'll consider it "free" and accept it. Otherwise, the cost associated with getting it is real and prohibitive to many people. And, by the way, if you DO decide to give me the ID absolutely free of charge, it will cost North Carolina citizens upwards of $100 million, as they found out the hard way in Minnesota.

Nobody said anything about a poll tax besides you. If you're going to set up a strawman argument, at least keep it honest.

If someone impersonates you...

....that's a criminal act and they need to be prosecuted. Just the same as bank robbery. But since I own a gun and a car - does that automatically make me a bank robber? ....Same goes for those who don't have photo ID ....they're not automatically going to impersonate you.

Don't forget Article VI of NC Constitution

Some blogged about it here and there was a column by Press Millen outlining how voter ID violates various parts of the NC Constitution

Article VI of NC Constitution is here

I'd suggest printing sheets of paper with Article I, Sections 10 & 11 and Article VI of the NC Constitution.

Take them to the polling place.

If anyone asks you for an ID, give them one of the copies of the constitution.


I would think every Libertarian would refuse

The whole scheme to restrict voting should be repugnant to any Libertarian worthy of the label, along with 99% of the other nonsense coming out of Raleigh these days.

Why not simply use photos on voter registration cards?

I just thought of another thing. If this was simply about identity theft, than people could simply submit a photograph to put on their voter registration card (if they wanted to), just like they would with bank cards.

I think that this voter ID is really about denying a large number of elderly women, who are probably registered Democrat, from voting, as well as young people who don't have driver's licences, as many young people (who are usually progressive Independents who vote Democrat) wait until they're older to get their driver's licenses.

We prove our identity when we

We prove our identity when we register to vote, we just identify ourselves when we go to the polls. We state our name and our address. If poll workers simply allow us to state those two facts and not say our address in the form of a question before we do, then that should be enough. A person showing up at the polls and offering a false name and address in order to cast one vote is just beyond stupid, and totally ineffective. If a scheme to rig an election is put into place I can guarantee you that this will not be a part of it.

I'm a moderate Democrat.

Elections are supposed to be

Elections are supposed to be 100% FREE, if it cost you so much as 1 thin dime to get an ID then it is unconstitutional both Federal and State.
Also as is quite obvious to anyone sane there is no reason for this ID manure as there isn't any "Voter Fraud" to speak of.
Now there is ELECTION Fraud, which by and large the Tpublicans have committed on several occasions the past 13 years. But of course they will not address that will they?

The issue here is this when it comes right to it:

If the government both federal and state do not FEAR the citizenry then they will take advantage of that and do whatever it is they damn well please.
Sadly democrats/Liberals have been so incredibly puddywhipped into absolute submission to believe that under absolutely zero circumstances EVER should anyone for any reason EVER resort to even the most benign acts of violence that we have all but completely neutered ourselves so that these politicians know beyond any doubt that they can do as they please. They have ZERO fear of us, thus they have absolute control.
All the protest in the world with millions in attendance mean nothing today, they literally sit back pull a $100 bill out of their wallets and use to light their Cuban cigars with while they laugh their asses off.

If they do not fear us then they will do NOTHING but exactly what they want to do, period.
We are dealing with what amounts to people that are stark raving insane.
Go to to the likes of Charlie Manson and say to him, "hey either you do exactly as I say or, or I ,I ,I will protest you and send you a sternly worded letter, so there"
Can you even imagine how long and loud he would laugh in your face?

Well that is exactly what these stark raving lunatic Tpublicans are doing, because we have no bite and they know we never will.
When it gets so incredibly bad that we are living in a totalitarian theocratic police state where Atheist and Gays are stoned to death on the public square every Friday night "maybe" a backbone might emerge.
Until then enjoy what we are reaping by allowing this nonsense to continue.

Guns vs voting

Should exercising one's right to keep and bear arms be easier than exercising one's right to vote?

That's what the NRA and the Gun Owners of America claim.

One doesn't have to prove one's identity to purchase a firearm.


The measure of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little. - FDR

I'll join you


I like your idea.

I like that you propose to do it in a primary so I won't feel that I'm throwing away my vote. I've never been part of a class action suit before.

Do you have any idea of what attorneys think about the merits of our lawsuit? Do we need to start talking with the NC ACLU?

Besta é tu se você não viver nesse mundo

Thanks, George

The primary is the right time and place for this.

I have not been able to get a clear answer on the likelihood of success of a court challenge, but even if it's a snowball's chance in hell, I'm going to pursue it.

Also, I'm assuming the NC ACLU is already on this case. I'd be shocked if they're not. (I've been shocked before, so maybe I need to reach out.)

The GOP says they've written their laws to stand up in court. We'll see.


Of course the NC ACLU opposes Voter ID laws. I was wondering about getting legal help from them.

I'd be interested in getting their opinion on how well the GOP law is written.

Of course, a lawsuit can serve as publicity, whether it succeeds or fails, and we've got to publicize yet another loss of our rights.

Besta é tu se você não viver nesse mundo

This is what happens when you refuse to show "Your Papers Please

1. A private Fascist Corporate Security Guard at the Polling Place will simply Taze your Communist rotten Butt on the spot in the name of political Freedom and State Security.
2. You will be handcuff and toss on a Freedom Bus that will take you to the Burton Mental State Insitution North of Durham on I-85 and will be Waterboarded by it's Staff until you confess that you work with the Democrat Devil and was the Dude that offer the Apple to Eve.
3. You will be sentence in a private secret Court that will deem you as a "Enemy of the Corporate State" without a lawyer or due process. The Sentence will be 30 years of hard labor at a Corporate Mountain private prison funded by the Republican National Committee.
4. Now for the bad news.. You will be release by mistake and than put on a escape prison list and when caught outside the Prison Gate waiting for somebody to pick you up, the State will give you 2000 years to serve for the attempted escape.
5. Now for the Good News! A secret group of Escape Alien Lizards from Area 51 and Lizard Lick North Carolina will seized the Prison and release you with a one way ticket to the Dark Side of the Moon where you will meet the new king of the Dark side who will be Art Pope he will really make your day in the end..