Roger Clemens, Barry Bonds, Steroids, and Baseball

I gave up on baseball back when they had their first strike, I was a kid in a struggling blue-collar family and it destroyed any respect I had for the game. So, it doesn't effect me too much to see that there are 60ish baseball players "named" in the Mitchell Report on steroids in baseball. MVPs, All-Stars, Golden Glove winners.

Any of you who still watch baseball, any of you who have kids, you need to do some serious soul searching. Do you really want to support a corporation that has sat by with a blind eye while its employees became drug addicts? Not only that, but the players UNION should be disbanded, yes it should be disbanded and started again from the ground up. The union knew the employees were drug addicts, they knew the problems that are associated with this type of drug addiction, and they covered it up.

The game is dead, long live the game. The only good thing that could come out of this would be an end to steroids in sports. The hypocrisy in America is astounding. Poor-man's drugs, go to jail for a decade. Rich man's sporting drug, here's a trophy.

I hate baseball, you? If you want to take your kids to a game, try one of the Olympic Sports at UNC.

Comments

I feel the same way

about all professional sports.

I don't hate baseball.

I hate major league baseball and what it has become. I hope that this is a giant wake-up call for the corporations and all of its shareholders and minions, and in particular its fans. The press to hit harder, run faster, and be better better better is what caused all of this. Instead of sitting back and enjoying the game for the game's sake - everyone involved pushed the players - who became a commodity instead of human beings - to be better, faster, stronger. To hell with their health and well-being. They did it willingly because they were rewarded handsomely, but it still reminds me of slavery or prostitution. I wonder if it's really worth it.

What I love is minor league baseball -- and it saddens me that some minor leaguers may have thought that drugs were a way to get to the majors. I love the atmosphere of minor league games, and will continue to go to see the Bulls play when I can.


Be the change you wish to see in the world. --Gandhi

Good point.

I hate major league baseball, but not T-ball, little league, high school, college, or even the minors. Anywhere that players are still striving to become the best and not merely trying to maintain the status quo for the sake of money.

One of the pitfalls of childhood is that one doesn't have to understand something to feel it. - Carlos Ruiz Zafon

Jesus Swept ticked me off. Too short. I loved the characters and then POOF it was over.
-me

I'm confused, Robert.

I'm confused, Robert.

I don't understand your criticism of the baseball strike. I would have expected you to support unions, especially given John Edwards' support for them. It always seemed to me that baseball players, like other entertainers, provide the actual revenue for businesses and ought to be paid accordingly, especially given that most of their careers are so short. Why should the millions of dollars they earn go only to owners (some should, of course, since the owners also add value)?

Your criticism of the union for not addressing the problem of drug usage by players makes more sense to me, but I'm not sure your proposed solution would help much. After all, if the reconstituted union is composed of the players, as it should be, wouldn't a reconstituted union have the same problems? The players themselves are the main problem, aren't they? It's kind of like blaming our country's problems on W when millions of ordinary people voted for him: there's plenty of blame to spread around, and getting rid of W actually won't solve our problems, although it will help.

As far as comparing drugs used by the rich and poor, I agree with you. Sort of: rather than punishing them both, as you seem to want to do, I'd prefer to punish neither, prefering instead to regulate their legal usage, if possible.

See, I told you I was confused!

-- ge

Besta é tu se você não viver nesse mundo
http://george.entenman.name

Besta é tu se você não viver nesse mundo
https://george.entenman.name

There should be no legal usage of some drugs.

"Steroids" is a big bag, and while there are legitimate medical reasons to use them, they should never be used for performance enhancement. I would no more legalize HGH than I would heroin. Marijuana, yes, I do think we should legalize and regulate it for some uses.

I was left cold by the players strike because I was a kid and I felt like everyone was in it for the money. It ruined it in my kid's eyes and I've never found my love for the game again. I don't think unions are without errors in all cases, my father's livelihood was ruined for many years by a bad union error. I also think that unions are missing the forest for the trees, if the UAW (for instance) wants to improve the auto industry in America - they need to be organizing in China and Japan.

It will be the wild west of Jimmy Hoffa over there and down in South America, but if you organize them there, then we become more competitive.

One of the pitfalls of childhood is that one doesn't have to understand something to feel it. - Carlos Ruiz Zafon

Jesus Swept ticked me off. Too short. I loved the characters and then POOF it was over.
-me

Yeah - you know - there are sometimes that without

certain steroids, I wouldn't be able to walk. Thank the gods they're legal. Of course, I use them under a doctor's care.


Be the change you wish to see in the world. --Gandhi

Absolutely, that goes for all drugs.

I myself was the recipient of a wonderful double-dose of morphine in the UNC emergency room last year. My wife was on a morphine drip after her appendectomy at week 35 of pregnancy. Drugs are good, drug abuse, bad.

One of the pitfalls of childhood is that one doesn't have to understand something to feel it. - Carlos Ruiz Zafon

Jesus Swept ticked me off. Too short. I loved the characters and then POOF it was over.
-me

This is all assuming

that the Mitchell report is the be all end all for the players named. No one has been convicted of a crime.

I believe that steroids are bad when used for performance enhancement. I believe that Major League Baseball should have very strict guidelines for use and very strict punishment for the players who do use banned substances.

My problem with the Mitchell report is that Mitchell is the current director for the Boston Red Sox, a team with no one named, and their arch nemesis the New York Yankees have 22 current or former players named. Mitchell as the current director of a Major League Baseball team should have either recused himself from the investigation or quit as director of a team. It is a blatent conflict of interest and unethical.

Unless a player is convicted of a crime, use of an illegal substance, this report is a croc and should be viewed as such based mostly on heresay.

Jay Ovittore
Candidate- 6th Congressional District

“The will of the people is the only legitimate foundation of any government, and to protect its free expression should be our first object.” Thomas Jefferson

Jay Ovittore

“The will of the people is the only legitimate foundation of any government, and to protect its free expression should be our first object.” Thomas Jefferson

bull

steroids are rampant in pro, college, and even amateur sports. Whether he was able/willing to go after everyone is one thing, but to say it is a crock is just that, a crock. We need to clean up sports and we need to let our kids know that people like Bonds and Clemens (if found guilty) are LOSERS.

Jesus Swept ticked me off. Too short. I loved the characters and then POOF it was over.
-me

I think the problem is that they haven't been found guilty.

Yet they are being treated as if they were. That's the issue I have. Mitchell is not an impartial party in this, he has ties to the Boston RedSox.

All you have to do is look at Barry Bonds' head and know that steroids are a problem in baseball - as well as in other sports. It's the fault of major league baseball, the teams, the media, and yes, the players, for wanting more more more. Most fans that I know are satisfied with a good game. I hope this is a wake up call for all of them.


Be the change you wish to see in the world. --Gandhi

They only had one or two people come forward and "rat"

One of them was a trainer for the Yankees during the period in question.

The most stunning aspect of the report, which was completed by former Sen. George Mitchell, is the great detail with which he goes into Clemens' past, based on eyewitness testimony by the pitcher's longtime trainer, Brian McNamee. Considering how quickly public opinion turned against slugger Mark McGwire, Clemens' Hall of Fame status could be in question.

My very limited understanding is that most of the other people are implicated because of BALCO.

One of the pitfalls of childhood is that one doesn't have to understand something to feel it. - Carlos Ruiz Zafon

Jesus Swept ticked me off. Too short. I loved the characters and then POOF it was over.
-me

I understand all of that.

I'm just not sure that Mitchell was the best choice for the one to compile the report, given his relationship with the Red Sox. (Full disclosure: I'm a Yankees fan, born and bred. It will never leave me.) Also - this report is accusing men of breaking the law, but as far as I know, the testimony of the "rat" was never taken under oath, or in a court of law. The men named in the report were not given the opportunity for fair representation such as having a lawyer represent them or a jury of their peers.

I'm not saying steroids isn't a problem. I'm positive it is. I'm just saying that the Mitchell report was the wrong way of going about it. There are those who think that it was MLB's way of union-busting; of getting the player's union to capitulate to terms before more players names were mentioned.

Who knows? If it cleans up the game of baseball, I guess that's a good thing. It's a good thing that names like Jeter and Piazza weren't on it. But I still wonder if the end justifies the means. I think it should have been a law enforcement investigation. This one has the feel of a witch-hunt.


Be the change you wish to see in the world. --Gandhi

The way I feel, is this.

We've all known that steroids are a problem in professional and college sports for some time, now it is a problem at the high school level. Any of us who played competitive sports in college knew people who were taking pills or shooting up. I could list off at least a half-dozen people I played with that I KNEW were taking 'roids.

It has to stop.

If the only way to end it is to come out and slap the biggest heroes in baseball right in the face, to put them in a 8'x6' jail cell, to "Mercury Morris" them. Then so be it. This isn't going to go away through the good graces of professional players who want to be the best, or owners who don't care about the meat they pay to win, only the wins. It is only going to go away by making it impossible and immoral to take steroids.

Period. If a few eggs have to be cracked in the process, so be it.

One of the pitfalls of childhood is that one doesn't have to understand something to feel it. - Carlos Ruiz Zafon

Jesus Swept ticked me off. Too short. I loved the characters and then POOF it was over.
-me

I agree.

I'd just rather see the eggs cracked through the law enforcement system. That's all.


Be the change you wish to see in the world. --Gandhi

IDIOTS!!

Its easy for y'all to sit there and bad mouth sports, because no one in this discussion has ever been at a level that these allegations are taking place. Steriods may be bad, but so are cigarettes and unprotected sex. Playing baseball is a job for us, not just a game like it is to y'all. Taking steriods is the same as someone in a corporate office cheating someone to climb up the corporate ladder. Its to better the performance and pay raise. The one thing y'all did get right is that it is bad for the body, but its a choice. No one hear knows what steriods does to the actual game of baseball. There is no reason why professionals, college players, or anyone else should be penalized. Someone that is taking steriods vs. a pitcher who doesn't, has no advantage of hitting whatsoever. Now, maybe they connect on a ball and hit it 50 ft. further, but in that case its the pitchers fault for the pitch. People that pay money to watch us play put the pressure on the clubs and players to make the game more exciting; the name of the game is to fill the stands, right? So what does it matter what we do to keep y'all excited and enthused about the game of baseball? How about you lay off on how we do our job and we won't bother y'all on how you do your job.... and remember its not a game to us, it is a job that we get payed for doing and on top of that we devote our entire lives to the game of baseball, giving up a social life, sometimes college, love, and many more things, just so that we can provide excitement and a sense of fullfillment for the millions that find baseball America's past time. There is no easy road to the pros and steriods is something that helps the 16 hour day that we go through for 7 months at a time, making $900 a week in minor league ball. So if there was a steriod that made you do your paper work faster and helped you to be more efficient, would you not take it?

Don't do it for me.

just so that we can provide excitement and a sense of fullfillment for the millions that find baseball America's past time

Fans overwhelming say they DON'T approve of players using performance enhancing drugs...so don't use Fans as your excuse.

I can't speak for anyone else here...but I have a Master's degree in Health and Physical Education and a Bachelor's in Sport Management. I worked with Olympic athletes at the US Olympic Training Center during the run up to the Barcelona games and spent 4 years working with Elite-level college athletes. I know exactly what it takes for an athlete to achieve the pinnacle in their sport.

This issue is about a lot more than the individual millionaire ball-player trying to extend his career span or break the unbreakable record...it's about the potentially deadly consequences of kids like you thinking the only way to succeed in sports is to juice. You do yourself, your sport, and all athletes a great disservice by promoting this screed. People die from using these drugs. They suffer permanent irreparable damage to the liver, kidneys, brain. They commit suicide and acts of violence against others because of the abuse of these drugs. It is dangerous and irresponsible.

And if that's not enough, to use your language, there's a reason why it's called Cheating.

Taking steriods is the same as someone in a corporate office cheating someone to climb up the corporate ladder.

...and just like in the corporate office, when you get caught cheating you suffer the consequences. But, in this case, the consequences just might kill you.

Alright, you've got a deal.

How about you lay off on how we do our job and we won't bother y'all on how you do your job

We'll just stop coming to the games, and you guys can shoot up drugs all you want to. Oh wait! That's already happening.

Idiot.

Judgement at its best...

Never once did I say that I took steriods or promote the taking of steriods... i'm trying to play the devil's advocate, because I hate when people make uneducated judgement to something that they have never seen other than what they hear on tv. And congrats to you Mr. i went to too much damn school, but all your years of working with these athletes and you still appearantly don't know what it takes anymore.... i'm guessing your older, so old school is the way to go for you. And i agree old school is still the best route to go. I haven't and never will take steriods, but i've been around it since i was 16 in high school and now in the minor leagues with guys my age. You can say what you want about kids and following role models, but its still a choice and it doesn't matter whether or not barry bonds or anyone else takes steriods, the 17 year old kid in high school trying to impress some girls, is going to take it no matter what, not because of influence from someone he's never seen or talked to before!! And after all those years of school, you'd think they would have taught you that anger and depression and any other side effects of steriods depends on the personality of the person... not the steriod itself. It is cheating to the fans and to the game, but once steriods entered into leagues round the world, it became apart of the game and to keep up with the game, you either hop on the train or you get left behind. Now, just to get things straight here, i'm not a kid, so you can take that and put it in your pipe and smoke it, i earned every bit of where i'm at in baseball, and i do believe in working your ass off to get what you want, but i also understand that the game has changed and the mindset of the kids today has changed... so let it change.

Oh and by the way... fans will never stop coming to watch the games and buy the gear and support us, so you can drop that point real quick,

idiot.

You are hilarious!

Thanks so much for the entertainment! You have contradicted yourself more times than I will bother to point out, but I will set the record straight on your assumptions about one thing...me.

I'm a 30-something woman, not some older gentleman who "no longer knows what it takes".

As for your medical knowledge of the side effects of steriods....well, I'll take a guess you skipped that semester of med school and leave it at that.

Have a nice day!

Med school?

Don't let me get under your skin or anything, but you have no idea what a man goes through anyways... you just ruined your credibility on anything you said! And seeing that we're four years apart doesn't show much knowledge on old school teachings and baseball, the last time i checked, baseball wasn't an olympic sport. Even with me being drafted and still having a degree in human behavior and a minor psychology, i've seen first hand the differences between steriod users. So next time you want to talk about men's sports, don't, just keep it to yourself... Men's sports are a whole different animal compared to women's sports!! Try not to hurt yourself thinking about your borderline retarded comments....

Check your bordeline comments

You might want to check again. Baseball is an Olympic sport, first appearing in 1902. It has been in the Olympics on and off since then and has been an official Olympic sport since 1992. It will be part of the 2008 Olympics in Beijing and will be discontinued after those games. I wonder why?

Two things.

The polite part of me wants to remind you that your incoherent thoughts, and poor sentence structure and grammar do nothing for your "argument."

The other part of me wants to tell you to fucking grow up, meathead.

That is all.

Do you ever sleep?

And...

The other part of me wants to tell you to fucking grow up, meathead.

I think I want this on a t-shirt.

Be the change you wish to see in the world. --Gandhi

Excuse you.

My entire career in sport has been spent working in Men's sports.

Regardless of that fact, I do not need to be a man to be educated about the subject of male anatomy, physiology, kinesiolgy, and psychology nor do I need to be a man to have professional experience in these areas.

And finally, the abuse of performance enhancing drugs is not the exclusive domain of male athletes or of professional sports. I'll use Marion Jones as a recent illustration of my point.

While I appreciate your attempt to play Devil's Advocate on this issue, your use of phrases like 'idiot' and 'retarded' do absolutely nothing to advance your argument.

So, try not to hurt yourself learning to present your ideas in an intelligent manner.

I love baseball.

My big holiday gift to my husband this year was a set of 10 Durham Bulls Games. I know the minor leaguers have it rough. But I'd much rather watch them win on their own merits with out steroids.

I love the ballpark. I love the atmosphere of the game.

And you know, it wasn't until recently that I realized that "roid rage" was referring to something other than people having problems because of hemorrhoids.

Be the change you wish to see in the world. --Gandhi

Teacher...

Seeing that we're not in english class right now and on a blog, i think i could care less about my sentence structure and grammar! Find something else to critique me on... like maybe the subject at hand?!?! The argument holds itself just fine without having to be grammatically correct for people like you who can not challenge or give an educational debate on the subject. And baseball has not been apart of the Olympics on a consistent basis, enough to call it apart of the games, such as the other sports.

Oh and when you use a term, you might want to research that term and find out what it means, before you try and use it in the wrong context... "meathead" is someone who works out and does nothing but workout for the sake of getting unbelievably huge! I am not a "meathead" just b/c i play the devil's advocate on steriods.... are those words too big for you english teacher?

And for the comment above about the Durham Bulls, thank you for supporting the minor league games, b/c you help us get through the season sometimes! I'm glad you realize what a grind it can be and thank you again for supporting us!! Enjoy those games...

Take your own advice

Try a real dictionary for a change. Merriam-Webster

Main Entry:
meat·head
Pronunciation: \-ˌhed\
Function: noun
Date: 1863
: a stupid or bungling person



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Vote Democratic! The ass you save may be your own.

thank you.

n/t

I'm pushing my spectacles down to the end of my nose . . .

. . . and peering at your post with my brow furrowed.

I don't understand this theory so many people seem to have that correct spelling or grammar is only important in an "English class." (The word "English" is always capitalized.)

The entire point of spelling and grammar is clear communication. In a medium such as this one, which relies upon the written word, spelling and grammar are more, not less pertinent than in an oral conversation.

By the way, when you say you "could care less," that means that you care. What I think you meant to say was that you "could not care less," which would indicate that you do not care at all and therefore could not possibly care less.

Of course, it is clear that you *do* care because of the way you responded.

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing
-Edmund Burke

and thank you too.

n/t

Stick to subject

subject is steriods in baseball, not english and grammar... if that's all y'all got then your shit's weak!!

oh

and by the way, its a shame that you think that... but its okay b/c i make what you make in a about 2 years, in a month!

too bad money

can't buy brains.

Ha!

...and now in the minor leagues with guys my age...

That $20 per day meal allowance must really make a difference with a salary like yours!

What do Minor League players earn?

“Minor League Baseball player contracts are handled by the Major
League Baseball office. Here are the salary ranges:

First contract season: $850/month maximum. After that, open to negotiation

Class AAA--First year: $2,150/month, after first year no less than $2,150/month

Class AA-First year: $1,500/month, after first year no less than $1,500/month

Class A (full season)--First year: $1,050/month, after first year no
less than $1,050/month

Class A (short-season)--First year: $850/month, after first year no
less than $850/month

Meal Money: $20 per day at all levels, while on the road.”

The Official Website of Minor League Baseball
http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/help/faq/

It takes a special kind of person to brag about $24k a year.

Unless he's peddling steroids,

which would bump his income up to $32,000 per year...

p.s.: Um, can someone tell me what happened while I was gone for a few hours? I.E., missing blogs and such? I'm not upset it happened, but leaving no trace nor comments about the..."housekeeping" is kind of Twilight Zoneish. ;o

Missing what?

We're not doing any housekeeping that I know of....

Robin Hayes lied. Nobody died, but thousands of folks lost their jobs.



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Vote Democratic! The ass you save may be your own.

I swear, on a stack of

minor league baseball cards, if you tell me all those "Dr. Staley" Len blogs were a figment of my imagination, I will freak out...

He may have deleted all his posts

His enthusiasm for his candidate got the better of him. It probably would have been nice if he'd had a guiding hand to ease him into the whole blogging thing, but this week is quiet for a reason....we're all swamped. My head is barely above water and I'm gathering most of us are that way right now. I gather the insinuations about Neal and Hagan didn't help him much because until that point most folks were being rather tolerant.



Robin Hayes lied. Nobody died, but thousands of folks lost their jobs.



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Vote Democratic! The ass you save may be your own.

Huh. I didn't know you could do that,

or I would have deleted my unfortunate, moment-of-weakness diary titled, "The Ten Most Disgusting Things I've Ever Done."

:)

Made you look!

Hah! I found it!

I cannnot believe you would do things like that...although the episode with you using the transmogrifier on the plumber that overbilled you was pretty humorous.

Now...about that time in Bhangashappoor...was that really necessary?

Stan Bozarth

I don't make anything

So.....if you spend two years playing haaaard at baseball and earn in two months what I earn in two years then........you're still earning do diddly squat...nuttin.

Robin Hayes lied. Nobody died, but thousands of folks lost their jobs.



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Vote Democratic! The ass you save may be your own.

Except trouble...

Hah! I gotcha'.

:)

:D



Robin Hayes lied. Nobody died, but thousands of folks lost their jobs.



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Vote Democratic! The ass you save may be your own.