One Reason Why I'm voting for David Price

BJ Lawson is opposing David Price for the NC 4th Districts Congressional seat.

I'm a Democrat who knows and likes Lawson.

But I'm voting for Price. Here's one reason why:

At a recent debate at UNC-CH (I think it was Monday, Oct 13, 2008), both Price and Lawson make good (and not so good) points during the Q&A period.

However, the basic reason that I like Price and will vote for him are found in his closing statement when he points out that Lawson is "trying to run away from his national ticket".

I agree with Price that this cannot be done, at least not in a legislative body.

Christopher Hitchens (and I) discovered in 1992 that personality is more important than issues. Four years ago my Nobel-Laureate hero, Paul Krugman, pointed out that our political system makes parties more important than personalities.

...we’re living in an age of one-letter politics, in which a politician’s partisan affiliation is almost always far more important than his or her personal beliefs. And those who refuse to recognize this reality end up being useful idiots for those, like President Bush, who have been consistently ruthless in their partisanship.

In other words, neither BJ Lawson nor John McCain can run away from their parties, no matter how mavericky or undefinable they may be.

In their summaries both Price and Lawson point out their common beliefs. I agree with most of them. That gives me hope for the future.

For now, I'll take a Democratic Congress and Presidency.

-- ge

Comments

First comes the wave that washes away the rubbish

After the wave we will have much more cleaning. First the wave.

No matter that patriotism is too often the refuge of scoundrels. Dissent, rebellion, and all-around hell-raising remain the true duty of patriots.

Progressive Discussions

Yes, exactly.

I've been thinking a lot about the transition. What do we do during the transition to help set the agenda here in North Carolina. Or, nationally.

"You could say, 'Look, is this guy, Laden, really the bad guy that's depicted?' Most of us have never heard of him before." John McCain, following Clinton's strikes on al Qaeda camps

Jesus Swept ticked me off. Too short. I loved the characters and then POOF it was over.
-me

It comes from an image in my head of a tidal wave

breaking on America in the form of common and uncommon Americans waking up to the Republican tactics. Like the Great Awake, they have gotten off the couch and become active in these elections. Can you see it?

No matter that patriotism is too often the refuge of scoundrels. Dissent, rebellion, and all-around hell-raising remain the true duty of patriots.

Progressive Discussions

One reason I am NOT voting for David Price

Price either doesn't know what bills he is supporting or he just flat out chooses to lie about it.

From the Price/Lawson debate article in the Daily Tarheel...

"Lawson claimed that Price voted for the initial two-page bailout that would authorize Henry Paulson to use his discretion. But Price reminded us of his actual voting record, including his vote against the initial plan."

As we know, these things are easily "fact checked" so I provide for you below the links to the roll call votes for both bills.

HR 3997: http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2008/roll674.xml
HR 1424: http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2008/roll681.xml

I guess if you don't have staff in your office to answer the phones or check emails then you can claim ignorance on how your constituents would have voted.

I love facts - they're so flexible!

According to the wikipedia history of the bill, the vote you reference as HR 1424 is not the original version of the bill. Do you honestly believe that when Price referred to the "initial plan" that he was referring to HR 1424, the bill after it came back from the Senate? That sounds like a different, non-"initial" plan to me. The words I heard him say seem to jibe just fine with the record.

As for HR 3997, what does that have to do with the bailout?

-- ge

Besta é tu se você não viver nesse mundo
http://george.entenman.name

Besta é tu se você não viver nesse mundo
https://george.entenman.name

Flexible facts

Dang! I need to find me some of those. It will make it so much easier to write and be "accurate."



***************************
Vote Democratic! The ass you save may be your own.

Why I would vote for price if I could

David Price is the ONLY NC Congress member to co-sponsor HR 1707:

HR 1707 (110th Congress)

Bill Title: Latin America Military Training Review Act of 2007

Introduced: 1st Session, 110th Congress on March 27, 2007 by Rep. Jim McGovern (MA)

Summary: This legislation would suspend operations at the Western Hemisphere Institute for Security Cooperation (WHINSEC), formerly named the School of the Americas(SOA) and calls for an independent report on the authorization and use of torture manuals that advocated tactics that violated U.S. and international law. The legislation would also carry out an assessment of U.S. foreign military training in Latin America

http://soaw.org/article.php?id=96#cosponsors

“We are the party of Roosevelt. We are the party of Kennedy. So don't tell me that Democrats won't defend this country. Don't tell me that Democrats won't keep us safe.” ~ Barack Obama

word

- - - - -
McCain - The Third Bush Term

MAPAC endorses BJ Lawson

David Price for the first time has lost the endorsement of the Muslim American Public Affairs Council. The Board of Trustees overwhelmingly voted to endorse BJ Lawson in the 4th District. MAPAC will encourage all of its alliance groups including its civil rights and civil liberty alliance groups to support Dr William BJ Lawson and vote accordingly.

Other Side

This response to that endorsement was written by a friend of mine. We went to High School together, and were co-presidents of Model UN (A Muslim girl and a Jewish Guy being co-presidents of a high school club in the south was awesome).

One personal thing I’d like to share that I haven’t shared with this community before shows how far Congressman Price will go to support our community and to do the right thing. When Professor Nasser Isleem’s wife and children were stuck in Gaza during the Lebanon war, I called Congressman Price’s office after every other avenue to get them out had failed. Not only did Congressman Price get Mrs. Isleem and her children out of Gaza, he chartered a plane and got 50 other Arab Americans, mostly women and children, out of Gaza when every border had been closed off. Any other Congressman would’ve said “Sorry, I can’t help you.” But Mr. Price went the extra 10 miles for people who weren’t even voting for him because we asked him for help.

Please read her great response.

"Keep the Faith"

"Keep the Faith"

I know Sr Taiyyaba well. She

I know Sr Taiyyaba well. She is a very intelligent young Muslim girl and a very nice person.

She was also an intern in David Price's office :)

This was not a rebuttal to the endorsement. It was sent 4 days before the Muslim community made up its mind. Here was my rebuttal of it from last thursday.

Politics rewards experience.

Firstly, we must realize that the power structure of politics rewards experience. Congressman Price has 20 years of experience in the House of Representatives. I worked in his office for a summer and I saw firsthand the respect he has from both Republicans and Democrats because of his seniority.

So in reading this first statement I am wondering why Sr Qureshi is not endorsing John McCain? McCain certainly has a lot more experience than Barack Obama. David Price has had 20 years in Washington and has consistently voted the party line 93% of the time. He doesn’t represent the people of the 4th district. He does exactly what he is told and follows it religiously. He certainly doesn’t represent or protect the Muslim community from violations of our civil rights. In fact David Price has consistently voted for the most heinous attacks on the civil liberties of Muslims in this country. He has had 20 years to get it right and consistently gets it wrong by his own admittance. He voted FOR the Patriot Act, and then decided it wasn’t a good idea. He voted for it without even READING it. That’s how much concern he had for voting for a bill that has led to hundreds of Muslims being arrested and detained for no reason.

Dr. Lawson has no state government experience and it would be imprudent to send a novice to Congress at this critical stage of American healthcare, economy, national security, and international affairs. As a junior member of Congress and a junior member of the party, Dr. Lawson will probably have to vote with his Republican party on most issues and be restricted by that party’s conservative views.

Or Maybe BJ Lawson would do what he has consistently done in his primary. The Republican hated his viewpoint on the war and his defense of Muslims. So they endorsed the right wing religious zealot running against him. Did BJ toe the party line and suck up to the Republican Party to win them over. Nope he kept talking about how the war was wrong and defending all our civil liberties. When it came to the election everyone said he would have absolutely no chance. He won the primary by 71% to 29%. Maybe BJ would go to Washington and do what is right and principled. Maybe he would go there and REPRESENT all the people who live in the 4th district. Wouldn’t that be a horrible thing? Someone who represents the people and not the special interests and lobbyists like David Price. BJ Lawson would vote the way of his conscience. He would caucus with whoever was doing the right thing whether they are Democrats or Republican.

Politicians reward loyalty.

Secondly, elected officials reward those who are loyal to them. It would be a mistake for us to endorse Dr. Lawson instead of Congressman Price. Change is good, but if we change something that has been working well for us for the past two decades, we would be shooting ourselves in the foot. Muslims have to think strategically about who we want to represent us in Congress.

MAPAC has been loyal to David Price since its inception and when he does turn up to our events he is quite happy to throw things back in our face. Two years ago at the MAPAC dinner he blamed Muslims for the death of 1000 Lebanese Civilians killed by Israel. When approached to put forward a bill to call for a ceasefire he did nothing until someone else put it forward. When approached to help the Palestinians over the years he has consistently sided with the Israeli’s. Even the now infamous Price/LaHood Letter that he had the cheek to boast to the MAPAC forum on Sunday was so biased against the Palestinians. He travels the world promoting democracy and free and open elections yet for some reason he lost his voice when the Palestinians made their choice. This is the man who even voted to move the US embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem. Even though it is illegal under international law as Jerusalem is classed as occupied land. He voted for this after telling our Palestinian brothers and sisters he would not. Loyalty goes both ways. Muslims have shown 20 years of loyalty to David Price. Now suddenly he cares when he is in danger of losing an election.

A Congressman remembers who supports him and rewards that loyalty by protecting that community’s interests and by responding to its constituent needs. We should continue to build our relationship with him – and now we have the grounds to do so, to ask more of him, since we have supported him for so long. It would take another long term to build a relationship with a new candidate.

Yes the Muslim community believes in the Patriot Act. It believes in the sanctions that murdered millions of Iraqi children under Clinton’s administration. It believes in funding a war in Iraq (like Price has voted to fund) It believes in the continued occupation of Palestine by Israel funded by Congressman like David Price who never open their mouth to enforce US or international laws against it. David Price was boasting on Sunday at the MAPAC forum how he helped to have someone released from prison in Egypt yet he couldn’t even open his mouth about Sami Al Arian who was detained less than 20 miles away in Butner. BJ Lawson would do more for MAPAC and Muslims even if he lost to David Price in November. He would speak up for what is right and condemn what is wrong. That is what principled men do.

We have to think big.Thirdly, our community has to think big – we want Senator Barack Obama to be president, but the more Republicans that are in Congress, the less likely it is that Senator Obama will be able to effect any meaningful change. I’ve already mentioned that Dr. Lawson would probably be restricted by his party in his freedom to vote. Mr. Price has more leeway in voting for something right because of his twenty years of experience and as a Democrat, would support Obama’s positions.

When did MAPAC become a part of the Democratic Party? The job of MAPAC is to be a non partisan PAC that endorses candidates based on their principle and willingness to help the Muslim community. I have no love for the Bush administration but no one party, democrat or republican protects the rights of Muslims. As many Democrats voted for war and attacks on our civil liberties as Republicans. Clinton bombed Muslims, prevented the Bosnian Muslims from arming and protecting themselves and implemented the sanctions that killed so many in Iraq.

Congressman Price has been loyal to our community on a personal, national and international level.
Fourthly, Congressman Price not only shows interest in our community here in NC, but is one of the few members of Congress who visits Muslim countries to constructively interact with those governments. He’s been to Lebanon, Afghanistan, Indonesia and many other countries and worked with their governments as a chair of the House Democracy Assistance Commission. I’ve even heard him say in a speech, when he was invited by a Jewish student group, that even though the United States is a friend of Israel, we do not have to agree with everything Israel does.

David Price is a friend of Israel. Don’t take my word for it. Look at his voting record. Look at the $54,000 dollars he has received from Pro Israel PACS (WRMEA). Ask the Palestinians in our community how many times he has let them down. When asked at the recent MAPAC forum if he would enforce current US laws that say that the US cannot give aid or weapons to countries like Israel who use them against civilians and if he would encourage Israel to negotiate with HAMAS he talked about Egypt?!?! We don’t need enemies with friends like Congressman Price.

Congressman Price voted against the Iraq war from the beginning, when it was unpopular to do so and has continually introduced bills to revoke the war’s authorization. Since he has become chair of the Appropriations Subcommittee that funds the Department of Homeland Security, Congressman Price has worked to shift DHS’s attitude to focus on privacy and civil liberties. Also, Senator Obama has introduced the Senate version of Congressman Price’s bill on reforming regulations on private contractors following the Blackwater debacle.

Congressman Price did vote against the Iraq War. He has however voted to fund it. When other crazies like Ron Paul and Dennis Kucinich have voted to withdraw the funding. The idea that the Department of Homeland Security has shifted to focus on protecting privacy and civil liberties is to be frank, ludicrous. It is the Department of Homeland Security that is RESPONSIBLE for the violation of Civil liberties and rights that affect Muslim. The FBI for example is answerable to the Department of Homeland Security.

Congressman Price has consistently supported the Muslim community. He always attends the MAPAC events and has year after year come to smaller meetings when invited by Muslims to their homes. He listens to our issues and gives us solid answers, not empty policy promises.


David Price doesn’t always attend MAPAC events. He pulled out of the last MAPAC dinner at short notice and MAPAC invited BJ Lawson to speak instead. I don’t know why Congressman Price pulled out of the MAPAC dinner but I do know there were many disappointed people who wanted to ask him why he did absolutely nothing for the human rights crisis that was happening in Gaza at this time.

One personal thing I’d like to share that I haven’t shared with this community before shows how far Congressman Price will go to support our community and to do the right thing. When Professor Nasser Isleem’s wife and children were stuck in Gaza during the Lebanon war, I called Congressman Price’s office after every other avenue to get them out had failed. Not only did Congressman Price get Mrs. Isleem and her children out of Gaza, he chartered a plane and got 50 other Arab Americans, mostly women and children, out of Gaza when every border had been closed off. Any other Congressman would’ve said “Sorry, I can’t help you.” But Mr. Price went the extra 10 miles for people who weren’t even voting for him because we asked him for help.

The operative word here is Arab Americans. Any member of the United States government is obligated by law to protect its citizens in foreign lands in times of conflict. It is admirable that he did this but it is his job. He gets paid very well to REPRESENT the citizens of the 4th district and all citizens of the United States. I will guarantee you if you vote for BJ Lawson not only will he protect the rights of American citizens. He will also petition congress to stop the Israeli govt from bombing Lebanon in the first place. BJ Lawson would put forward resolutions to enforce the Leahy Act. The law that says that the United States govt cannot sell arms or give aid to countries that use these weapons against civilians. How many times in 20 years has David Price tried to enforce this law? Never. In fact at the MAPAC town hall forum he totally deflected the question of financial aid to Israel and talked about aid to Egypt.

Dr. Lawson is not ready to represent our community in Congress.
Lastly, Dr. Lawson is not ready for Congress and our community would be harmed by supporting him instead of Congressman Price. He is young and charismatic, but he does not have the experience in any level of government to make him a strong advocate for our issues. We need a powerful force like Mr. Price.

How would our community be harmed by supporting someone who would defend our community’s civil liberties and rights? How would our community be harmed by someone that attacked the News and Observer for their mailing out of the Obsession DVD a paper which refused to speak to BJ Lawson afterwards and yesterday endorsed David Price. How would our community be harmed by someone who speaks out against torture of Muslims in Abu Ghraib and Gitmo. How would our community be harmed by speaking out against the war in Iraq or in the possible future war in Iran that many democrats are itching to do to protect Israel. How would our community be harmed by someone who speaks out against racial profiling of Muslims and the govts pathetic terrorist watch list. Maybe I am mistaking Sr Qureshi here. Maybe what she means is that our community would be harmed by David Price if we don’t vote for him. If that is the meaning I wouldn’t be too worried. He has been very ineffectual at protecting us so I doubt he could do much harm.

Yes BJ Lawson is young and charismatic. By 34 he had an engineering degree, and went on to complete a degree in medicine as a neurosurgeon. He then went on to start and run a very successful software company. Yes he is young and charismatic. David Price is old and boring. Both are irrelevant. What is relevant is what Price has done with his voting record and what BJ would have done different. David Price has never fought so much for the Muslim vote. This is because BJ Lawson is winning over large groups of Democrats in the 4th District.

Dr. Lawson handed out copies of the Constitution as support for his campaign. But his extreme and conservative interpretation of the Constitution leads him to believe that many functions of government are illegal because they are not literally proscribed in the Constitution. He thinks Social Security and Medicare are unconstitutional. This is an unworkable from a legal point of view. If we based our laws only on what was literally in the Constitution, we would still be living with restrictive 18th century laws and social systems.

I am sorry sister but this is absolute nonsense. BJ Lawson does not have a “conservative” interpretation of the constitution. He has the constitutions view of the constitution. The one that David Price swears an oath to uphold and preserve every two years. The one that guarantee’s all of us the rights to liberty, freedom and the pursuit of happiness. The one that David Price has violated by trying to erase our civil liberties by voting for the Patriot act and H.R. 1955 or Violent Radicalization and Homegrown Terrorism Prevention Act of 2007. There are many things that our govt pushes through that are unconstitutional. David Price for example voting to hand over his Congressional power to declare war to Bush in 2001 was also unconstitutional. As for the 18th century laws and social systems we have these things called amendments.

Dr. Lawson said in the MAPAC candidate forum that he would eliminate foreign aid – this will push the United States into an isolationist and maybe even antagonistic stance to the rest of the world.

This is not true. I have the video of the forum to prove it. The question that was asked was “If elected would you support enforcing the Leahy Act that prohibits the United States govt providing financial aid and weapons to countries like Israel who use them against civilian populations BJ Lawson answered that he would remove foreign aid funding from any country who used weapons against civilian populations. David Price talked about Egypt. The fact remains sister that the United States govt uses aid as a means of supporting dictatorships around the world and giving them the aid and arms to suppress their own people. This happens with Israel but also happens in Egypt, Pakistan, Indonesia, Algeria, Jordan and many more countries in the middle and Far East. Personally I would rather have the freedom and the right to pick my own leaders in my own country without US interference. You are actually the first Muslim I have ever heard arguing the opposite. As for the world being antagonistic to the United States, I think you will find that most of the world is already.

He seems to believe that the Department of Education, research entities like the National Institutes of Health and the National Science Foundation, and safety net programs like Social Security and Medicare are unconstitutional and therefore should be abolished.

The State of North Carolina pays the Federal govt 1.8 Billion in taxes towards education. It receives back 1 billion dollars to pay for the education in the state. Why can’t states raise their own tax and pay for it themselves directly instead of it being swallowed by a govt in Washington DC. In regards to Social security and Medicaid you don’t need to be concerned with its legality in regards to the constitution. We are concerned about the national debt, this is small fry. The combined entitlement debt of Medicaid and Social security is some 49 Trillion. The whole system is going to collapse regardless whether it is legal or not. The blame lies at the feet of congress. BJ has never served there, David Price has been there for 20 long years.

Because he subscribes to a libertarian view that there has been too much financial regulation, he has advocated unworkable ideas on his website’s blog like abolishing the Federal Reserve and reverting to regional currencies or bartering

You do know that the free market views of libertarians are actually Islamic? Many Muslim scholars in economics such as Ibn Khaldun, Al Farabi, Ibn Taymiyah, Taqi ad-Din Al Makrizi, Ibn Tufayl’s. promote free market economics. As to abolishing the federal reserve… I find this criticism of BJ very ironic sister. You are arguing against BJ Lawson who says that fractional reserve banking, the Federal Reserve and interest is all haram and who argues for an Islamic type banking system. Yet you defend David Price who believes in the haram Federal Reserve, fractional reserve banking and usury?!?! I think most Muslims would go for the halal over the haram any day of the week.

As a freshman member of Congress, Dr. Lawson would realistically be forced to vote with his Republican party and endorse all of its restrictive policies – or, even worse, he would follow the lead of his mentor Ron Paul in voting far out of the mainstream of both parties on many issues and accomplishing nothing.

BJ would vote for what is right and not be driven by party. That would be refreshing for most I feel and wouldn’t be a drawback. Please remember that only 9% of the population believes Congress is doing a good job. That is a lower approval rating even than George Bush. Yes God forbid that BJ would follow Ron Paul and vote against the war, this country’s foreign policy, defend Palestinian rights and protect the civil liberties of Muslims. Yes that would be horrible… Please point out one piece of legislation that David Price has put forward that has protected the rights of Muslims in this country? Please point out one piece of legislation that David Price has proposed that has helped the Palestinians and condemned Israel for atrocities they have committed?

You should also know that many Muslims across the United States support Ron Paul.

Dr. Lawson is not unskilled or immature. He is charismatic and new. (Just like a certain Senator running for President. Vote Obama, Vote Lawson and have real change) But he is not ready to lead us in Congress as Muslims or as North Carolinians. At most, let him prove himself and his ideas in state government first. Changing focus now and supporting him instead of Congressman Price would seriously dampen our voice and representation in Congress.

We have no representation in Congress from David Price. BJ Lawson would be more helpful to Muslims in North Carolina even if he lost that David Price has having been there for 20 years

Mr. Price has the experience and initiative to support us as Muslims and North Carolinians. He has a history of speaking strongly for us and going out of the way to help us in times of need. We should continue to support him as we have in the past, and we can continue to expect him to be an advocate for us.

Sorry sister. David Price does not support us. He comes to us in an election year when he is in trouble. He has had 22 years to defend Muslims here and abroad and his voting record shows that he is not up for the task. David Price has had 22 years. All BJ Lawson asks for is one. He will defend our rights and liberties and he will stand up to lobbies and people who aim to hurt us both here and abroad.

Wasalaam

Marc

Voting Based on Party

You guys need to wake up and have a serious reassessment of your faith in the two-party paradigm. What does the Democratic party, or the Republican party, really stand for? It shifts constantly. These are two institutions that have a stranglehold on our political system, and have worked together in "bipartisan" fashion to pass the most horrendous legislation (PATRIOT Act, Resolution for the use of force in Iraq, the Military Commissions Act, the bailout bill, etc).

Political loyalty is disgusting, whether it is for the Republicans or Democrats. I cannot even believe that someone is trying to justify, intellectually, the act of voting based on party affiliation alone. Party affiliation means nothing! Bush has been anything but a true conservative - he is a big-government fascist! No Child Left Behind? Nation Building? Socialist Bailouts for the Rich? These are antithetical to the Republican platform he was elected on. Likewise the Democrats have not even given a serious effort at ending the war or restoring our rights. They are all bought-out, and if you don't realize that you need to wake up from your self-induced ignorance. Get educated on political ideology and stop watching CNN and listening to NPR. Realize that it is partisan cheerleaders like yourself on both sides which are wrecking this country.

I know exactly what you are thinking right now: "But the republicans are sooooo bad and Obama/the Dems are better.." You know what that sound is? That's the sound of you falling into the same old trap that has kept us electing tyrants who serve corporate masters for decades. Oh, you think Bill Clinton was wonderful (probably 90% based on the fact that Republicans hate him), so i guess you forgot about NAFTA, and the Iraqi sanctions that killed roughly half a million children.

Keeping up with the latest political soap opera drama is not being informed, it's being programmed to think that politics is just some big football game where you cheer for one side or the other. No. Politics is about fighting for what's right, and clearly neither party has been willing to do so.

WAKE UP AND STOP BEING PARTISAN CHEERLEADERS. READ SOME HISTORY. GO TO ALTERNATIVE MEDIA OUTLETS.

ok

I will go to some alternative media outlets....

Here I am.

"Keep the Faith"

"Keep the Faith"

I actually agree with you about the two-party system

But I'm not so sure I agree with your reading of history. History tells me that we currently have a two-party system and that I have to work within it.

I note that you offer no strategy for adding more parties. The only strategy I've ever heard of (besides getting a huge segment of the population to shift to a new party) is some form of proportional representation. Unfortunately it's hard to get either major party to implement this idea.

Meanwhile, as someone said, "...the republicans are sooooo bad and Obama/the Dems are better..." ;-)

-- ge

Besta é tu se você não viver nesse mundo
http://george.entenman.name

Besta é tu se você não viver nesse mundo
https://george.entenman.name

Paul M, please give us more of your wisdom

who would you suggest we support?

No matter that patriotism is too often the refuge of scoundrels. Dissent, rebellion, and all-around hell-raising remain the true duty of patriots.

Progressive Discussions

Some Tips

First of all, if you haven't done so already, figure out what political ideology you subscribe to. This is not as simple as "conservative" or "liberal". The political spectrum is much, much, much larger than those two generalities (which, like the parties, change meanings over time). If you consider yourself a liberal, what is a liberal? What are the basic philosophical assumptions that form the foundation of your political opinions?

I'd guess that most of the people on this site fall into the left-libertarian or progressive ideologies, and although I disagree quite strongly with progressives on many points, they are truly philosophical differences which generate sincere discussion instead of political he-said-she-said. That is what is so lacking today.

If you are in fact a progressive, you should not be voting Democrat. You should be working to get the green or even socialist parties on the ballot in North Carolina, or at the very least working to reform the electoral system so that parties which actually stand for something (I'll take a party or candidate that actually stands for ANYTHING at this point) have a shot of participating.

What's my problem with democrats, besides the fact that they pretend to be the solution and never deliver? They are what I call "enablers". Bush and the neo-cons are the obvious villains, but who is the side-kick, the group that is essential to making sure that the neo-cons get what they want? The Democrats. The terrible, viewed-for-humor-value-only Fox show Hannity & Colmns sums up the relationship perfectly. Hannity, the arrogant neo-conservative hack and Colmns the meek stereotyped liberal who doesn't pipe up to call out Hannity on his insane BS.

Look, I'm an anarchist, and I know saying that is going to turn a lot of people off but I am quite comfortable believing that the state does not have any magical authority to rule over me. The point is, even as an anarchist, I have a great appreciation for a wide variety of view points: socialist, libertarian, progressive, paleo-conservative, etc. I respect people like Cynthia Mckinney, Chuck Baldwin, Ron Paul, and Ralph Nader. These are people who actually hold philosophical positions - not simply political positions - and stick to them. Don't waste your votes on Obama or McCain - two centrist senators hailing from a Congress with an 8% approval rating - vote for someone who stands for something.

The more you look into what is going on, you will realize that this is not a struggle between Republicans and Democrats or Liberals and Conservatives, as the mainstream media would suggest. In reality, it is a battle between the insiders who control our economic and political system and those who want to disrupt that order. Distinguish between policy issues of enormous philosophical and practical significance and the electoral game-show on television. Realize that our elections are punch and judy shows designed to make us forget that our government has not been run by "the people" in decades.

In the Russia, it is not disputed that Putin is essentially still in charge, that he picks his successor, and that a small group of government insiders run the country. The same is true for the United States, only the control is not as obvious or concentrated as in Russia. Partisan politics is a complete waste of time if you truly care about making the world better. If you just like to be opinionated and root for one side or the other and keep up with the latest celebrity - i mean political - news, ignore everything i've said.

Thanks for the lecture,

but it's apparent to me that you know little about the level of knowledge and experience many of us here at BlueNC possess. We're not just mindless drones, we have distinct philosophies and ideologies that are not "programmed" into us by our party of choice, and those ideals and goals are a hell of a lot more substantial than those held by paranoid and selfish anti-government zealots.

The fact is, many of the people who support fringe parties and candidates (like you listed above) do so because they know there's simply no chance in hell these people will succeed. It's a cop-out, frankly, so they can say to themselves and others, "The problems we face in this country are not my fault or responsibility, because I supported x or y candidate, who would have fixed everything."

We are well aware of the problems associated with the entrenched power structure in Washington (and Raleigh), and if you stick around after the election is over, you will find BlueNC putting much more pressure on Democrats in office than we do Republicans. But overall, we'll have a lot more opportunities to bring about progress if there is a Democrat in office to exert pressure on, so that's why you see us forcefully supporting them now.

Paranoid, Selfish, Anti-government Zealot

Can I change my user name to that? Hahaha

You think spending time and money supporting a candidate that has no chance of winning is a "cop-out"? No, a cop-out is settling with a pro-war, corporate puppet. Don't give me that "throwing your vote away" nonsense. You're more likely to win 18 powerball lotteries in a row than to cast a deciding vote for the president this November (unless you are a Supreme Court justice). Might as well send a message that you're unhappy with the choices presented to you - and if you really are a progressive, you have a lot to be unhappy about with Obama. Working to promote candidates that may not have a chance to win means a lot more than hopping on the Obama bandwagon.

You must not understand how corrupt the democrats really are. They are pawns of Wall Street, as this most recent bailout measure makes painfully obvious. Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different result. That is what you are doing when you support either of the two major parties, because both have expanded the US Empire, destroyed civil liberties, undermined the foundations of a productive economy, and shredded the Constitution.

If the true conservatives, who have been disenfranchised by the Republicans time and time again, and the true progressives, who have been deceived and betrayed by the Democrats for years, were to break away from their respective parties we might actually see some change in this country. I would love to see a race between a true conservative and a true liberal, even as someone who disagrees with both. But so long as we have partisan cheerleaders falling for the same lies every years, the parties will maintain a base of support and the criminal regime that really runs things in this country will maintain their position.

PS: Obama was just endorsed by a known war criminal and liar - and the Dems are cheering! Ahahahaha you silly Democrats.

Oh my god.

I'm so glad you came here. All my life now, I've been waiting for someone to set me straight. Well, at least tell me how to think politically. :-D. /end sarcasm.

I'll tell you what a complete waste of time is - thinking you're going to change a system from the outside. I generally vote for Democrats because they are the candidates locally with whom I agree most often. Here in Moore County, we don't have Greens and Socialists running. Believe it or not, we don't even have Libertarians running, which shocked the hell out of me. On a state level, I considered voting for the Libertarian Candidate for Governor, because I think he's "the smartest guy in the room". But ultimately, I find that I agree with Bev Perdue more than I agree with him.

On the national level - I don't agree with Ralph Nader. I think he's a joke. I don't like him and I wouldn't want him to be president. I should throw my vote away because I think the 2 party system is flawed? Bullshit.

I voted for Barack Obama not because he's a Democrat, but because TWICE, when he was asked about important priorities, he said Early Childhood Education. Because I've read his education plan, and I think it will work. Because I've read his health care plan, and while it's not exactly what I want, it's better than what we have. I want him to be president because the next president will choose at least one if not two Supreme Court Justices, and I want women to have the right to continue to make decisions about their bodies without governmental interference.

I want him to be the President because of who he is, not because of the party he is in. To me, that's just gravy.

And you want me to vote for Nader, or McKinney, or someone else who doesn't have a snowball's chance in hell of winning? Are you out of your mind?

Thank you, no. I'll stay here, in the Democratic Party, Leftie-loonie wing, thank you very much.