OBAMA' S JUDGEMENT ?

After watching the news and looking here on the web and reading the statements by Sen.Obama's former pastor, I have serious doubts about Sen.Obama's judgment.

GOD DAMN AMERICA
Am I the only person on this blog that is outraged by that statement?

A man that desires to be President of these United States, and his pastor preaches from the pulpit, God damn America.
Sen. Obama knew this was coming but did nothing to deny it or refute it. When questions arose about Rev. Wright, Obama tried to pass it off as “just a member of the family that you don't always agree with." "Like an old uncle"

Well if my old uncle stood up at a family gathering and said “God DAMN America"
He would have a bloody nose before I threw his ass in the street.

If my pastor made such a statement in my church, I am sure that I would not be the first to the pulpit, to take him by the nap of the neck and the ass of his pants and throw him out front door.

And Rev. Wright's comments about Sen. Clinton, that she didn't know what it was about, that she hadn't been called a nigger. I admit that is true, but she has been called a bitch and a cunt and I really don't see much difference in the choice of language.

And then what about Mrs. Obama's comment about " this is the first time in my life I am proud of America" That has been spun and spun and spun by the Obama campaign. If she didn't mean it, why did she say it? And we are dealing with very smart people; both Sen. Obama and his wife are quite smart so what is the purpose of these comments, as they are not just misspeak.

And please stop comparing Sen. Obama to JFK.
When Sen. Obama has swam 5 miles from a burning PT boat to an island, while dragging a burned and broken comrade to shore, then you can compare him to JFK. JFK could give a beautiful speech, but he had steel in his spine. Beside John F. Kennedy, Sen.Obama is spineless for no man that aspires to be President of the United States would stand by and do nothing but make excuses while his pastor damned this nation.
In the words of his most famous speech, John Kennedy described himself,
I may have the quote little wrong but it went something like this
“Tempered by war, disciplined by a hard and bitter peace"

What has tempered and disciplined Sen. Obama?

I am sure that since I have spoken out against Sen. Obama, I will now be held up as another one of the bigots. A racist white male from the south.
Those that know me know better. Those that think so, go to that America that Rev.Wright wants God to damn.

If these are the true feelings of the people that Sen.Obama has surrounded himself with he is unfit to be President of the United States.

Comments

You obviously didn't read the response

I already posted it in another thread.
I'm sure you already saw the response though and choose to ignore it in an effort to keep this smear campaign alive.
In case you really missed it, here goes again:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/barack-obama/on-my-faith-and-my-church_b_91623.html
I presume you go to church yourself, in that case are you personally responsible for everything your preacher says?

Keep this Einstein quote in mind folks:

“Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.”

I am sorry I don't read the Huffington Post

And I don't know what "other thread" I would have seen it in.
Your's is the reply I would have expected, with the " how dare you attiude" and the Einstein quote was priceless.
I have an MD, a PHD, and a Harvard grad in my gene pool.
I have a good mind, free will, and I choose with that free will and mind to say that the Obama campaign reminds me of the old fable about the Emperor that had no clothes.
Everyone is to scared to speak the truth that is only now become so evident.

how dare you attitude?

I don't see it.
By the way, you didn't reply to my question.

You're just a daring ferriner

When is your citizenship finalized? We need to have a party. :D



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Vote Democratic! The ass you save may be your own.

Contact all the Democrats

.....and let's ask Robin Hayes PUBLICLY. :D We need to expedite this so you can vote in November.

Robin Hayes lied. Nobody died, but thousands of folks lost their jobs.



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Vote Democratic! The ass you save may be your own.

You don't read the Huffiington Post?

Ya should. It's often very entertaining. Perhaps not as wickedly so as Wonkette, but different moods call for different websites.

Democratic Underground is also quite good, and the clashes there over Barak and Hillary have made the ones on this site seem relatively tame.

It really is time for us to get a grip and tone down the bashing of these two candidates from within the party.

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing
-Edmund Burke

Your question

No I am not resposible for what my pastor would say, but I have the free will to stand up and walk out. I am also not a candidate for President of the United States.
I would hope we would hold anyone running for President to a higher standard.
Obama had a chance the day this happened to call it for what it was and walk away from this deluded " pastor" What does that say for his judgement? Only now, when the chips are down, does he choose to put distace between himself and Rev.Wright.
As for the " how dare you attitude" that refers to the posts I have read that cut the throat of ANYONE that dares to question the great Obama.
I don't know where they found a vat big enought to mix up as much kool-aid as has been fed to the american voting public.

i like your

vat of cool-aid imagery. It made me chuckle.

warning

hahahahaha

Is that what really happens when someone takes a firm stand against Obama here?

not really, no

just when they start baiting.

I don't get it

At the risk of looking really stupid, can you explain the sign?
You have to remember, I'm just a "damn ferner" :-)

i asked that same question.

click on it. It is a pretty damn clever way for the poster to show how he or she felt about thread

when i say pretty damn clever, btw,

it means i liked it, or at least thought it was funny and creative.

DUH

I didn't know it was a link..I sure get it now! LOL
Got it..don't feed them.

It's a fine line between not feeding the trolls and still responding to lies though. Remember that swiftboat stuff?

Someone who doesn't agree with your candidate choice

is not a troll. This is inappropriate and not the least bit clever.

Robin Hayes lied. Nobody died, but thousands of folks lost their jobs.



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Vote Democratic! The ass you save may be your own.

is trolling a very serious accuasation

in the blogosphere? Especially with a funny little linked picture? I thought it was kind of nicer, albeit somewhat passive-aggressive, way to say "quit making inflammatory remarks".

Plus, i don't think that will stifle the accused. If he's sincere in his motives--which i believe he is--he can (and just did) ignore the troll picture for the quasi joke that it was... That's what I did. I'm enjoying what HLW has to say. Different perspectives on the pres. race are good to have on here.

It's not nice and it's counterproductive

If there's something wrong with the blogger's post, point it out. A troll refers to something very specific on blogs and this person is simply ranting. He/she isn't a troll just because you don't agree with him or her.

Robin Hayes lied. Nobody died, but thousands of folks lost their jobs.



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Vote Democratic! The ass you save may be your own.

Boys and Girls can I tell you a little story

I fear for a replay of 1972,a year that the grassroots ran the show, and the party regulars were cast out from the temple.
At 46, I am old enought to remember.
In NC, we lost everything but the shirts on our backs in that election. We got Jesse Helms that election day, a GOP Gov, and 4 more years of Tricky Dick that was only saved by Sam Ervin.
As for my warning, I am neither a hillbilly [ what I think is behind the red circle and the slash ] or an uneducated redneck. What I am is a hardworking democratic supporter.I work for the advancement of my party. But I also call it like I see it. There is a bad moon rising,here we are 3/4 of the way thru the primary season and someone has finally decided to vet Obama.
It is about time. I just hope it isn't to late to recover and we go into another November like 1972.

So are you going to vote for him...

..when Obama finally is the nominee?

neither hillbilly nor redneck

but troll.
in your post, you managed to go from "god damn america" to jfk in just a few paragraphs. you dredged up a "scandal" that has already been explained and moved past and is only being rehashed by the wolfsons and limbaughs of the world. and it would appear to some that this was an attempt to bait others of differing opinions to make emotional responses. you may be fueled by a genuine concern borne of past experience, and that's cool and understandable, but actions such as these do nothing to address the real issues of this election; they only serve to start mudslinging battles that get us nowhere. and while you may justify it by saying it represents "obama's judgment," the tone of your post is almost as bad as anything one might find on a red forum. all you're doing is baiting.

or, as some would say, being a troll.

thank you and good day, sir (or ma'am).

re- neither hillbilly or redneck

Democrat by birth, troublemaker by the grace of God.

The duty of the opposition is to oppose.
Winston S. Churchill

electability is a real issue

And just because Obama has spoken does not put the matter to rest. He often admits the least and then more if it doesn't go way, as with Rezco and how much money Tony contributed to his campaigns. Senator Obama is running as having superior judgment, and since he has little experience and few legislative accomplishments he says it trumps experience and clearly spelled out plans. He's made this his issue, since it's a judgment one. have you heard the acronym WORM - what Obama really means? His defenders are always spinning him, not quoting him. We need a candidate who is well qualified and who has a record of legislative accomplishments and we have one. Why would we want to take a chance on a fellow who hasn't' shown the best candor, whether or not we still think he's a fine guy and whether or not he's 'explained' to your satisfaction? Not only you will be voting in the GE and this thing looks like he can't now win.

Hillary - Alternative Energy

Legislative experience may not be

the wisest campaign stance for the Clinton camp.

Obama was a state senator for seven years before being elected to the U.S. Senate, so he's got more years "legislating" and more campaign victories under his belt than Hillary. Best leave that one alone.

Not to mention, whichever of these two win the nomination has to face a guy with 21 years in the U.S. Senate and 4 years in the U.S. House before that. Giving him more legislative experience than both the Dem candidates combined...

Pandora

We can smell bullshit from a distance. You don't have to put it in caps to flag it for us.

HRC has already dissed NC. Trashing Obama does little more than bloody the Democratic slate in a red state, (which we are trying to turn blue)

If you want to open this little can of worms I'm calling Pandora over. She's got a big-ass box tagged Clinton with all kinds of crap in it.

Pandora's Box

I have worked all week and I am beat. But I will leave you with this.
This week I have spoken with Every statewide campaign, helping them set up a voter forum in Eastern North Carolina. I work with my local party, and have run for public office. I lost, but I stayed active.I am on the State Excutive Committee.
I promote this party and it's candidates thru out the east.
I try to work across the ticket.However, I do not believe the Obama campaign in in the best interrest of this country or this party. If that make me a troll, so be it.
However, on the first Wendsday in November when McCain is President-elect and we have had our asses handed to us here by the GOP,I hope you will remember the warning I gave you here tonight and the sprite in which it was given,and not have to resort to your bullshit smelling comments.
So get real, and get involved on the ground not just trying to beat-up on someone on a blog that doesn't agree with you.
And be warned, I am an old sailor, and my graps of the profane vocabulary will surely exceed anything you can muster in reply.

Bring it on

If you've got a better candidate let's hear about it. If you truly "do not believe the Obama campaign in the best interest of this country or this party" then let's hear why instead of ranting in sailorspeak.

For the record, JFK had a bad back.

It is expected that HRC will drag the state slate down as is. Your post and your comments undermine what you claim to work for. Tell us why you think she is better for NC.

I'm an old sailor too

And I'll match my "graps of profane vocabulary" against yours any day.

In case you haven't noticed, you've just walked into someone else's virtual living room (in this case, mine) spewing Republican talking points, slime and crap all over the place. While I'm sure you think you're trying to be helpful, the "sprite" in which it was given, in my opinion, was rude and obnoxious. Obama is no more responsible for what his preacher says than you are. And his repudiation and rejection of the comments was swift, clear and unequivocal.

If you're a Clinton supporter, fine. Let's hear some cogent thinking about how she'll be able to beat McCain. Otherwise, shut the fuck up. You're being used by people like the drug-addled Rush Limbaugh who want nothing more than to see Hillary somehow manage to steal the Democratic nomination.

Clinton has already lost this primary unless you want to use (1) new math or (2) old-time back-room deal-making that subverts the will of the people. She will not win in the North Carolina primary.

Which raises this question: How the hell are you going to work for Obama after taking the stand you took in your original post? Do you "try" to work across the ticket . . . or do you actually do it?

As Yoda says, there is no "try" ... there is do or do not. Looks to me like you're setting yourself up to be party of the problem.

Way...way over the top



Robin Hayes lied. Nobody died, but thousands of folks lost their jobs.



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Vote Democratic! The ass you save may be your own.

Yep. Over the top.

Sorry about that.

Nice articulation

I agree with some and disagree with other of your points on Obama, but you make them well. I also disagree that there is anything remotely "trollish" about your remarks, or that your points are those of the GOP as opposed to a passionate and thoughtful Democrat, or that you've said anything that can be fairly characterized as "slimey."

I think there might be a wee bit of cliquishness (that might not be a word -- sure looks funny typed) in some of the responses you've triggered. I've seen far more inflammatory comments (and many more spelling errors) go unremarked by "regulars" here, which I've assumed had to do with the general crowds' familiarity with that poster.

Anyway, I hope you will not be discouraged from continuing to contribute.

Brunette

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing
-Edmund Burke

Nice articulation?

You are so full of shit sometimes.

Dude,

Chill out. So you're are regular, long-time poster. That entitles you to be nasty to folks and attack them personally?

completely unnecessary



Robin Hayes lied. Nobody died, but thousands of folks lost their jobs.



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Vote Democratic! The ass you save may be your own.

Yes, I thought so.

I'm sorry that you are still upset.

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing
-Edmund Burke

I'm going to have to call bullshit.

I'm sorry that you are still upset.

Contrary to this statement, you've been looking for opportunities to take pot-shots at James, just as you did above. There's a fine line between speaking your mind and engaging in a personal vendetta, and you've crossed it.

Now I'm speaking my mind.

We all have differing opinions and various ways of expressing those opinions. We don't always agree about said opinions or the methods used to express them, and we learn from each other in the process. But personality conflicts that endure and rear their ugly heads frequently impact more than just the antagonists, it brings us all down.

Now, you can marginalize my comments by writing them off as merely a defense of James, or you can take a few moments to step back and figure out what you're really trying to accomplish here.

I'm sorry you are upset

But you're wrong. I really am sorry that James is still upset. No, I have not been looking for opportunities to take shots at James; I think the opposite is true.

And isn't it a bit of a stretch to say that my standing up for someone James attacked is "attacking" James? Are there certain people here who it is understood are supposed to get a free pass at slamming people? This new guy gets slammed, I am told I'm full of shit, but my sticking up for the first guy and responding to being told that I'm full of shit by saying I'm sorry James is still upset are heinous in some fashion and must be righteously denounced?

This is what I mean by there being a bit of a clique-like attitude. You don't know me quite well enough to make assumptions about my sincerity, but you plunge on ahead anyway because one of this forum's hosts -- who does indulge in more than his fair share of catty and snide remarks -- got his fanny tanned.

Your opinion that I'm engaged in a personal vendetta is something I can't help, but I can call bullshit right backatcha, because it isn't true and I'm not going to step back or step down just because it would please you to think you've got an infallible b.s. radar.

There is a lot of b.s. going 'round, but when I write something, I mean it. I really and truly am sorry that James is still so steamed and I'm really and truly sorry that you've decided that I couldn't possibly mean it when I said so.

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing
-Edmund Burke

Steamed?

You give yourself too much credit. I'm not steamed or upset. More like amused. Or maybe just disappointed.

Because for you to weigh in and declare this post "nicely articulated" borders on ludicrous. As scharrison says, the original post doesn't have a single link to the year-old story it's reporting. And it completely fails to cover Obama's strong and clear rejection of the pastor's comment. Furthermore, the reference to Michele Obama's quote carries the right-wing's widely used misrepresentation of what she actually said, while also ignoring the context of the comment.

Assuming you really do mean "nicely articulated" when you describe this post, the only choice I have is to question either your judgment or your motives.

James

PS Just to be clear, I don't consider HLW a troll. A tool maybe, but not a troll. He has made no effort to plead the case for his candidate, and he is using the Fox News approach to make his points.

That's beneath you

Just because you disagree with HLW's candidate choice doesn't make him or her a tool.

Consider yourself spanked.



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Vote Democratic! The ass you save may be your own.

Spanked

Tool is a lot more benign than troll. This person is spreading Obamalies either on purpose (troll) or by accident (tool, as in being used).

You don't agree?

I don't see that you are taking pot shots at anyone

I've always found your responses thoughtful and they are typically spot on. In my opinion you are right far more often than you are wrong.....or maybe that should read that I agree with you far more often than I disagree. Maybe it isn't a matter of right and wrong. It looks to me like you've been the recipient of the pot shots.



***************************
Vote Democratic! The ass you save may be your own.

I have never seen Brunette take pot shots at James

I've often agreed with Brunette and I think they are both capable of handling this. I don't think Brunette differs with James just for the fun of it or as part of a vendetta. She actually disagrees with him.



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Vote Democratic! The ass you save may be your own.

Thank you

Yes, this is getting a little nutty. It's as though there's a premise at work here that I can't possibly, honestly disagree with James without either "having bad judgment" or bad motives.

What's puzzling about this stance is that the very fact that we're all seeing such strong differences of opinion being articulated daily on television, newspapers and blogs -- differences among Democrats about their two primary candidates -- should be a CLUE that people can actually differ without one or the other being a bad person or an idiot.

I've weighed in to say this both when Obama was the target and when Hillary was the target, because I feel strongly that demonizing someone for having a different perspective sets a poor example for what liberalism or progressivism is supposed to promote. Surely the regulars on this blog have the emotional grip and rational capability of accepting that a wide range of views can have validity, that persons can honestly differ without one being "the bad guy."

As for James, well, I'll direct this to you, James . . . James: I will say it again, I'm truly sorry that you do appear, in fact, to get upset when challenged. I read your denial, but have a hard time accepting that you'd call me "full of shit" unless you were upset, and I have a hard time accepting that in a recent post, in which you lashed out rather heatedly and accused me of just lying in wait to pounce on whatever you had to say didn't indicate a bit -- more than a bit -- of pique. Really, my best guess is pique or paranoia.

Back to the idea of there being legitimate perspectives that vary on issues . . . It shouldnt' be necessary for me to add that I'm not suggesting that there are no lines to be drawn on speech or behavior or that tolerance means that anything goes.

But at the very least I think that it's over the line to assume you (Scharrison) can "call bullshit" on someone's expression of her own feelings without knowing that person awfully well (and you don't), and at the very least I think a person who is genuinely interested in fostering discussion would want to refrain (James) from being so quick to accuse another of bad faith.

Maybe, Scharrison, if you had written what I wrote, you would be bullshitting. Maybe, James, had you expressed the opinion I expressed, YOU would be doing so from bad motives, but for either of you to tell me what I can or can't mean is not fair, not "wise," and not likely to uplift any level of discussion.

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing
-Edmund Burke

So what is this?

I think there might be a wee bit of cliquishness (that might not be a word -- sure looks funny typed) in some of the responses you've triggered. I've seen far more inflammatory comments (and many more spelling errors) go unremarked by "regulars" here, which I've assumed had to do with the general crowds' familiarity with that poster.

It's a "meta" comment, taking a shot at not only James, but others in his so called "clique". It was not technically a reply to James' post, but it was (in reality) a reply/repudiation of his comments to someone else.

Because of this focus, it appears (to me) that her comments are more about James and less about the subject at hand. Ergo, a "pot-shot".

What is it?

I think it's a suspicion that you've reinforced. I see this on the blog, but by no means was it supposed to refer only to James, who did recently include a bit of snideness about a poster's spelling errors in his response. It's not even supposed to refer to a specific set of names. I think that with any blog that has been around a while, this mentality develops. It's natural the way it is natural for us to identify with our family, or our team, our state, our party, etc . . . .

I guess one example would be the way folks don't seem to get all that he't up with Max, though Max certainly gets "out there" sometimes (he grows on a person), and the way others who we've come to know and think of as a "regular" can make some pretty inflammatory remarks without having their motives challenged. I didn't mean to suggest that there was just one little bitty group of players who were a "clique," but that a cliquish mentality develops among regulars on blogs because they have come to feel that that know one another -- and are thus more likely to forgive one another's outbursts or other slips.

I would ask you to reconsider HOW you're reading what I write.

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing
-Edmund Burke

Okay, let's look:

I would ask you to reconsider HOW you're reading what I write.

So, James posts this as part of his comment to the OP:

In case you haven't noticed, you've just walked into someone else's virtual living room (in this case, mine) spewing Republican talking points, slime and crap all over the place.

And you post this as a comment to the OP:

I also disagree that there is anything remotely "trollish" about your remarks, or that your points are those of the GOP as opposed to a passionate and thoughtful Democrat, or that you've said anything that can be fairly characterized as "slimey."

From one writer to another, it appears you are not really talking to the OP, you're using him as a foil to argue with James.

Frankly, what I believe you failed to notice in your desire to chastise james for his admittedly heated rhetoric is this final comment from the OP:

If these are the true feelings of the people that Sen.Obama has surrounded himself with he is unfit to be President of the United States.

So the frontrunner and likely nominee on the Democratic ticket is deemed "unfit" by the OP, but keeping James straight is more important.

That's what I was talking about when I mentioned figuring out what you want to accomplish earlier.

take a look at yourself, Steve

And since you're into the cutting and posting, go back (hey, take all afternoon~) and look at everything I've posted -- first to last. Build a case or whatever.

But I stand by my posts to the newcomer, or so I perceive him to be, who I saw as being attacked unfairly. I empathized, since I've wondered, given the string of attacks I've received lately, whether I should continue to contribute to this blog. I couldn't help wondering whether the newcomer would have the same reaction. He comes on and gets called a troll and all other manner of things, though what he said and how he said it haven't been so different in content or tone from posts made by lots of "regulars."

I certainly stand by my observation on the clique mentality.

Maybe you just can't stand to admit that you were out of line when you told me you were "calling bullshit." I think you're going to put a lot more energy into refuting that suggestion than the effort is worth -- because as a matter of common sense and common decency, you really can't tell someone else what she meant by what she wrote. And you really were out of line for presuming to do just that.

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing
-Edmund Burke

Point taken.

I was out of line.

I think you are reading something into Brunette's posts that

simply isn't there.

Brunette was agreeing with me when she said she also didn't see anything trollish about the post.

Honestly, I think they can handle this.



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Vote Democratic! The ass you save may be your own.

It's true, Steve

There is a cliquishness here. That's not a pot shot. It's a shot of the truth.

Robin Hayes lied. Nobody died, but thousands of folks lost their jobs.



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Vote Democratic! The ass you save may be your own.

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