NC(Sen): My thoughts of Neal vs. Hagan and why YOU should care.

I, as much as anyone, have come out blasting the DSCC, the Democratic candidates, and anyone else who went looking for a new candidate just because Jim Neal was gay. That said, Hagan might very well make a great candidate. I would suggest that no one discount her because of when she came into the race or how. Anyone, except me that is. Because, for me, this race is about the heart of the Democratic Party in North Carolina and it is a gut check moment for Democrats around the country. At stake is this.

  1. The DSCC fails to bring in any of its top-tier candidates (Mike Easley, Roy Cooper, Beverly Perdue, Richard Moore).
  2. Bloggers put on a press to Draft Brad Miller, who we feel would be a progressive dream, a netroots hero for all of us to cheer and back. He declines.
  3. The DSCC/NC powers-to-be/bloggers decide that state Rep. Grier Martin is our man, until he says no. In the process of his deliberations, state Sen. Kay Hagan backs out gracefully.
  4. We have no one, and then up to the plate steps Democratic fundraiser extraordinare Jim Neal. Bloggers rejoice, the mainstream Dems, not so much.
  5. We find out why, Jim is gay, proudly so.
  6. Hagan is suddenly back in the race following many harried phone calls from current Democratic candidates worried that Jim's being the nominee will hurt their changes at being elected, after all, he's gay{shhhhh}.

That is where we stand folks, we have two candidates, one who came of his own free will and one who has apparently been lured by the DSCC at the bequest of the local power brokers out of fear that he's not mainstream enough. That in itself is not reason enough to support Jim Neal, this is:

Priorities

I've got 5 not 3: restoring Protecting our nation and its freedoms, fiscal reponsibility, health care for all Americans, protecting our environment and restoring government accountability to the voters who elect and pay the freight for the elected reps.

On Running

I'm not running this race to lose. I'm not running to make some social statement. I'm running to lead in the Senate for the voters in NC-- something Senator Dole has not done.

When people meet me, they'll see beyond the labels and into my character.

Energy

We have no choice-- as a state and a nation-- to move with a sense of urgency to make up ground and move forward with lightspeed to adress the assault on our environment which ths Administration has ignored. Our state and its natural resources and incredible and are treasure we can't lose-- and that's one battlefront which has been ignored.

NCLB

NCLB simply don't work. It's flawed in concept, doesn't engender positive outcomes and is underfunded by about, say, $50 billion. Catch name with no substance or money to match the moniker.

Money in Politics

As someone who's done a lot of fundraising, I've always referred to political dollars as "the dirty underbelly of democracy." It's repugnant the amount of money required to mount a national campaign-- which I'll do-- but it's gotta change. Public financing across-the-board: the only way to take dollars out of the equation. This is an election, not an auction.

Labor and Smithfield

I absolutely support the right of workers to organize and engage in collective bargaining.

Re. the situation in Tar Heel, I'll admit to not having drilled down on that specific situation as deeply as I want to.

Send me your thoughts-- please.

S-CHIP being vetoed

I think it's absolutely repugnant, appalling and if anything-- the best example of why Senator Dole is OUT OF TOUCH!!!!

We have 120,000 kids in NC who were abandoned by her vote which represent less than 1/2 of the 270,000 kids with no heath insurance.

EVERY child, man and woman in this state and this country should have access to affordable health care. Or nation-- our core values-- are under assault by an Adminstration and those who prop it up-- when a sick American goes bankrupt b/c they're sick.

From his issues page, we find out more.
Iraq

My opponent still backs the aimless policies of the Bush-Cheney administration, which have cost America taxpayers nearly $1 trillion and more than 3,800 lives.

Our troops have done everything we asked - and I don’t want to see any more of them die.

It’s time to bring them home to the heroes’ welcome they have earned, to rejoin their families, resume their careers, and be a part of their communities again.

To guarantee we don’t have to send them back in a few years, we need to redeploy small strategic units in the region to counter terrorism and train Iraqi security forces.

And then we need to redirect most of what we’re spending there to what matters more — children’s health and Medicare, Social Security, and making college affordable for middle-class families again.

The North Carolina Senate race has one man who is very progressive on the issues, every good Progressive should back him in this race. ESPECIALLY because the power-that-be don't want you to back him. This race can be the one where we set forth, once and for all: You cannot believe in civil rights for some, only for all.

True progressives, true liberals, even true libertarians should flock to this race and do the one thing that will make Beltway pundits and power-brokers take notice - bankroll it.

And, you can do this in a completely painless way, through my Pizza for Progressives page. It's a simple idea, trade in a daily latte for democracy. Trade in movie night once a month for Democracy. Say that you are willing to give up a non-essential, comfort for one day or one week EVERY MONTH, and make a difference. It's that simple. $5 a month, $50 a month, just by giving up something EXTRA.

actblue
It's time for progressives to act, it's time to put up or shut up. Do you believe in civil rights for all, or just for some? Do you want a party that still hides those the wingnut Republicans consider unacceptable? Or, do you believe that a person is judged by the character of their soul and not by the color of their skin, their sexual organs, or their sexual orientation?

John Edwards (President) $10.00
Jim Neal (NC-Sen) $10.00
ActBlue $1.00

Total $21.00

Give to Jim, show beltway Democrats that Progressives believe in civil rights.

Comments

If every progressive reading this story this week...

would give just $10, we could make a statement.

One of the pitfalls of childhood is that one doesn't have to understand something to feel it. - Carlos Ruiz Zafon

Jesus Swept ticked me off. Too short. I loved the characters and then POOF it was over.
-me

Done.


"If boiling people alive best served the interests of the American people, then it would neither be moral or immoral." Max Borders, Civitas Institute

Believe.

One of the pitfalls of childhood is that one doesn't have to understand something to feel it. - Carlos Ruiz Zafon

Jesus Swept ticked me off. Too short. I loved the characters and then POOF it was over.
-me

Done

I'm not getting into this discussion.. I've lost respect for our party at the moment and it has little to do with Mr. Neal....but I did go to Act Blue...

Thanks, Robert, your efforts make a difference. It's called walking the walk...not just talking the talk.

SE NC Dems

Stan Bozarth

I'm with you, Robert.

I'll give. I can eat in another night. I'm actually starting to like my family. :-D


Be the change you wish to see in the world. --Gandhi

Believe.

One of the pitfalls of childhood is that one doesn't have to understand something to feel it. - Carlos Ruiz Zafon

Jesus Swept ticked me off. Too short. I loved the characters and then POOF it was over.
-me

Robert, I've got to say

This is what grassroots/netroots is about. Showing us how inexpensive it is to donate to the candidates that we support. I want to thank you, personally, for that, because you're the one who first made me start thinking that way.

You're da bomb. Or something.


Be the change you wish to see in the world. --Gandhi

It's why the game is changing.

What happens when all the small donors from Edwards, Obama, Dodd, Biden, Gravel, Kucinich, and the rest put their money behind the eventual nominee? Thank God for George Bush, because he awoke a sleeping giant that is the small democratic donor.

One of the pitfalls of childhood is that one doesn't have to understand something to feel it. - Carlos Ruiz Zafon

Jesus Swept ticked me off. Too short. I loved the characters and then POOF it was over.
-me

Oh how passé.....

Robert's da shiz........ :)


Robin Hayes lied. Nobody died, but thousands of folks lost their jobs.



***************************
Vote Democratic! The ass you save may be your own.

Now, if I were "david" from the other day I would....

lose my shiz over that comment : )

One of the pitfalls of childhood is that one doesn't have to understand something to feel it. - Carlos Ruiz Zafon

Jesus Swept ticked me off. Too short. I loved the characters and then POOF it was over.
-me

shiz is sooooo 2005...

You're pimpin' Robert.

Left on 49

Actually......

Robert beasted on this diary.....or some crap like that. :)

Robin Hayes lied. Nobody died, but thousands of folks lost their jobs.



***************************
Vote Democratic! The ass you save may be your own.

Now I'm just scared.

One of the pitfalls of childhood is that one doesn't have to understand something to feel it. - Carlos Ruiz Zafon

Jesus Swept ticked me off. Too short. I loved the characters and then POOF it was over.
-me

Posted elsewhere.

Daily Kos

Booman

MyDD

One of the pitfalls of childhood is that one doesn't have to understand something to feel it. - Carlos Ruiz Zafon

Jesus Swept ticked me off. Too short. I loved the characters and then POOF it was over.
-me

Great post Robert

I'm in! Rec'd everywhere.

No matter that patriotism is too often the refuge of scoundrels. Dissent, rebellion, and all-around hell-raising remain the true duty of patriots.

Progressive Discussions

Great!

Just 2,997 readers left to convince they can spare $10.

One of the pitfalls of childhood is that one doesn't have to understand something to feel it. - Carlos Ruiz Zafon

Jesus Swept ticked me off. Too short. I loved the characters and then POOF it was over.
-me

me too.

I even figured out how to rec something at MyDD - which has eluded me for over a year. Learn something new every day.


Be the change you wish to see in the world. --Gandhi

I'm with Jim, but...

I think it's important that we don't bloody Kay Hagan too much. She did what most politicians would've done given the situation concerning the DSCC courting Grier Martin and not paying her any attention. Kay Hagan has worked hard as a State Senator and she'd make an excellent U.S. Senator. However, that doesn't stop me from supporting a fresh new face like Jim Neal.

Let's just remember what's most important here: getting Liddy Dole out of the Senate. (I would say "out of Washington", but given that she's lived there all her life, I don't expect her to call North Carolina home in her retirement.)

CLINTON for PresidentPERDUE for GovernorNEAL for Senate

And let's convince her that she needs to run for NC-06

There is no shame in knocking Howdie Coble out of the running. We need someone like Hagan in the US House. Someone call DCCC and let them know. Hell, someone call HER and let her know.


Be the change you wish to see in the world. --Gandhi

The DCCC is not interested in the 6th

It is not listed as a competitive district like the 8th is nor has Coble made any noticeable missteps like McHenry has. If you call the DCCC and get an honest answer, which I doubt you will, they would tell you that all the money and effort for this state is tied up with those two districts, and if Walter Jones loses his primary they will give to the 3rd district but the 6th would be a waste of energy.

Sadly have to agree.

I've got older family over there that have never missed a vote, Democratic up and down the line...except for "Howard".
They just like him, {shrug}.

One of the pitfalls of childhood is that one doesn't have to understand something to feel it. - Carlos Ruiz Zafon

Jesus Swept ticked me off. Too short. I loved the characters and then POOF it was over.
-me

A wing nut (scientific name: bloviatus humorless) that I work

with is from Randolph County and is under the influence of Howard Coble. He has told me more than once that he will NEVAH vote for Howie again because of his vote against the war funding about 6 months ago.

I guess he will have to vote for the Democratic nominee now? Nah, I just don't see it happening.

North Carolina. Turning the South Blue!

North Carolina. Turning the South Blue!

Howdie has

good constituent services.

Or so they tell me.

I'm a constituent. He recognized me when I visited his office in Feb because I dogged his steps through the 2006 elections, supporting the Quixotic campaign of Rory Blake (who said all the right things about the war before Howdie ever thought of them). But Howdie didn't know how he recognized me, so I told him he knew me because I voted against him.

He smiled.

He's an old man whose time has come and gone.


Be the change you wish to see in the world. --Gandhi

Then someone needs to let Hagan know that the PEOPLE

of the 6th are a lot more important than the DCCC (and of course I know that's what they would say - DCCC doesn't give a crap about us.) But there is a lot of money here, just in my county alone, that would be opened up to a viable challenger to Coble. I'm not kidding.


Be the change you wish to see in the world. --Gandhi

I come here not to bash Hagan....

but to make it clear why I won't support her.

One of the pitfalls of childhood is that one doesn't have to understand something to feel it. - Carlos Ruiz Zafon

Jesus Swept ticked me off. Too short. I loved the characters and then POOF it was over.
-me

Ditto.


"If boiling people alive best served the interests of the American people, then it would neither be moral or immoral." Max Borders, Civitas Institute

Double Dog Ditto!

No matter that patriotism is too often the refuge of scoundrels. Dissent, rebellion, and all-around hell-raising remain the true duty of patriots.

Progressive Discussions

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

For God's sake! There are so many factual errors in this post I don't even know where to begin!

The DSCC recruited Brad Miller too. It wasn't a blogger movement. Also, during Grier-mania here a few weeks back, a guy by the name of Jim Neal announced and received a very lukewarm reception from BlueNC and the rest of the state until Grier announced that he was out. Let’s not forget that.

Also, Jim Neal wasn't supported by most folks in the party before, during, or after we all found out he was gay. To say that people are turning against him, only now that we know of his sexuality, is borderline slander and will hurt EVERYONE'S efforts to beat Liddy Dole.

Understand that your words have implications. Choose them carefully.

Aaaaaah!!!!

There are so many stupid comments in your post I don't know where to begin.

I never said the DSCC wasn't recruiting Brad Miller, I said that bloggers were excited by him and if you check the timeline it was BEFORE the DSCC got excited about him.

Bloggers put on a press to Draft Brad Miller, who we feel would be a progressive dream, a netroots hero for all of us to cheer and back. He declines.

The only lukewarm reception Jim Neal got weeks ago was a wait and see reception while we were waiting and seeing about Grier Martin. Because we like Jim Neal does not mean he was first choice for everyone, just as after Feb. 5th many of us will be supporting a Presidential candidate we disliked only days before.

The DSCC/NC powers-to-be/bloggers decide that state Rep. Grier Martin is our man, until he says no.

I said that Jim Neal's candidacy was NEVER met by excitement by mainstream party folks, who know Jim Neal already. So, I'm pretty sure I never said "people are turning against him, only now that we know of his sexuality".

# Bloggers rejoice, the mainstream Dems, not so much.
# We find out why, Jim is gay, proudly so.

Accusations have implications, read before you make them.

One of the pitfalls of childhood is that one doesn't have to understand something to feel it. - Carlos Ruiz Zafon

Jesus Swept ticked me off. Too short. I loved the characters and then POOF it was over.
-me

you are making very serious allegations

You just said that the DSCC and Democratic candidates for office here in north carolina are not supporting Jim Neal becuase he is gay. I fthis is true, then we should immediately know who these people are and get them the hell out of our party.
Do you know who they are? Or are you just throwing out slanderous allegations? If you know who they are, tell us. If you don't then maybe you should stop spreading unsubstanciated gossip that will only help Libby Dole

I said that Jim Neal's candidacy was NEVER met by excitement by mainstream party folks, who know Jim Neal already. So, I'm pretty sure I never said "people are turning against him, only now that we know of his sexuality".

No, you did.

We have no one, and then up to the plate steps Democratic fundraiser extraordinare Jim Neal. Bloggers rejoice, the mainstream Dems, not so much... Hagan is suddenly back in the race following many harried phone calls from current Democratic candidates worried that Jim's being the nominee will hurt their changes at being elected, after all, he's gay{shhhhh}.

Eerily similar statements sir.

You don't know a slander allegation from a dollop of mud

Please stop throwing the word around. The word you are actually looking for is libel and it also wouldn't apply here. If you don't know the law and exactly what constitutes a violation, please don't accuse writers here of the "crime". Thank you.



***************************
Vote Democratic! The ass you save may be your own.

but what about my point?

that he is essentially saying that the dscc and north carolina power players in the democratic party are opposing Neal becuase he's gay. That's what he said, then denied. I don't see how you can interpret those statements above in any other way.

but what about the cheese to go with the whine?

This thread is out of hand.

It's all about perceptions. For a seasoned politician, Hagan hasn't played this well. When the primary is over, if there's a primary, we'll see how the elected candidate handles themself. I know who I will support and why. You arguing about what Robert said, and what Wellstone did, etc. is not going to make a difference in the fact that Hagan handled this opportunity poorly.


Be the change you wish to see in the world. --Gandhi

agreed

Hagan should have waited a bit to announce that she was thinking about getting back in to the race. The proximity of her announcement to that of Neal's "outing" allowed people to draw incorrect conclusions about her, her campaign, her supporters, and the reason behind her run.

Could be a rock and a hard place kind of thing

She's already way behind Dole in name recognition and money. Time is luxury she doesn't have.

I agree that the timing is less than ideal and has a certain odor to it, but to wait allows time to pass that she just doesn't have.

Either way she loses. Tough way to start a campaign, but she'll have worse to deal with should she win the nomination.

Person County Democrats

I actively oppose gerrymandering. Do you?

Yeah

This narrative plays itself on the blogosphere too often: bloggers unfortunately set up this dichotomy between "the community" and "the establishment" and act as if only the blogosphere can act authentically. Jim Neal was not a hero at BlueNC until Grier announced he wasn't running, which smacks of political calculation. Nothing wrong with that, but acknowledge that it's just as prevalent in the blogosphere as in "the establishment".

Slight Correction

Jim Neal wasn't a hero here at BlueNC until he came and introduced himself, spent time talking about who he is, and what he stands for. It works the same way online as it does IRL. As for "establishment", we're as much a part of the "establishment" as anyone else. There is less and less separation between the online and IRL everyday.

The web has given us a way to connect with each other and communicate quickly that we've never had before. This gives us a chance to discuss candidates and get to know them on their own with out being fed a line by any party - Blue or Red.

More and more I find it's the folks who aren't online as much who try to make it an "us" and "them" thing. Just my observations. Nothing personal meant towards you, phoenixdem.


Be the change you wish to see in the world. --Gandhi

I understand and agree

Yeah, that's the point I was trying to make: we ought not think of the netroots as divorced from the establishment. I do think that some folks in the community think this way, and I think that Robert is echoing some of those sentiments. The whole idea that the party mechanisms operate antagonistically with regards to what "real" progressives are working for is, I think overly simplistic and wrong-headed.

I think you have a point re: Neal becoming a hero by introducing himself. There's a case to be made that he "gets it", and if Hagan gets in without coming here, I'd say that she doesn't get it (though I'd still support her). Unfortunately, Robert's not saying that we ought to support Neal because he gets it and Hagan doesn't. He's saying we should support Neal because he's gay and the "establishment" doesn't like that. I just don't think that's helpful and/or accurate.

Really, is that what I'm saying?

I thought I was saying this.

That is where we stand folks, we have two candidates, one who came of his own free will and one who has apparently been lured by the DSCC at the bequest of the local power brokers out of fear that Jim's not mainstream enough. That in itself is not reason enough to support Jim Neal, this is:

You know, I do actually have to say, unrelated to your point, that this sentence "one who has apparently been lured by the DSCC at the bequest of the local power brokers" is probably a bit too much. As I've said below, I have no doubt that Kay Hagan wants to be in the Senate for all the right reasons. I don't think she is running because of the "lures", but that doesn't mean they aren't attractive. Back to my point.

Priorities

I've got 5 not 3: restoring Protecting our nation and its freedoms, fiscal reponsibility, health care for all Americans, protecting our environment and restoring government accountability to the voters who elect and pay the freight for the elected reps.

On Running

I'm not running this race to lose. I'm not running to make some social statement. I'm running to lead in the Senate for the voters in NC-- something Senator Dole has not done.

When people meet me, they'll see beyond the labels and into my character.

Energy

We have no choice-- as a state and a nation-- to move with a sense of urgency to make up ground and move forward with lightspeed to adress the assault on our environment which ths Administration has ignored. Our state and its natural resources and incredible and are treasure we can't lose-- and that's one battlefront which has been ignored.

NCLB

NCLB simply don't work. It's flawed in concept, doesn't engender positive outcomes and is underfunded by about, say, $50 billion. Catch name with no substance or money to match the moniker.

Money in Politics

As someone who's done a lot of fundraising, I've always referred to political dollars as "the dirty underbelly of democracy." It's repugnant the amount of money required to mount a national campaign-- which I'll do-- but it's gotta change. Public financing across-the-board: the only way to take dollars out of the equation. This is an election, not an auction.

Labor and Smithfield

I absolutely support the right of workers to organize and engage in collective bargaining.

Re. the situation in Tar Heel, I'll admit to not having drilled down on that specific situation as deeply as I want to.

Send me your thoughts-- please.

S-CHIP being vetoed

I think it's absolutely repugnant, appalling and if anything-- the best example of why Senator Dole is OUT OF TOUCH!!!!

We have 120,000 kids in NC who were abandoned by her vote which represent less than 1/2 of the 270,000 kids with no heath insurance.

EVERY child, man and woman in this state and this country should have access to affordable health care. Or nation-- our core values-- are under assault by an Adminstration and those who prop it up-- when a sick American goes bankrupt b/c they're sick.

From his issues page, we find out more.
Iraq

My opponent still backs the aimless policies of the Bush-Cheney administration, which have cost America taxpayers nearly $1 trillion and more than 3,800 lives.

Our troops have done everything we asked - and I don’t want to see any more of them die.

It’s time to bring them home to the heroes’ welcome they have earned, to rejoin their families, resume their careers, and be a part of their communities again.

To guarantee we don’t have to send them back in a few years, we need to redeploy small strategic units in the region to counter terrorism and train Iraqi security forces.

And then we need to redirect most of what we’re spending there to what matters more — children’s health and Medicare, Social Security, and making college affordable for middle-class families again.

The North Carolina Senate race has one man who is very progressive on the issues, every good Progressive should back him in this race.

One of the pitfalls of childhood is that one doesn't have to understand something to feel it. - Carlos Ruiz Zafon

Jesus Swept ticked me off. Too short. I loved the characters and then POOF it was over.
-me

Gesundheit

You forgot to finish your sneeze.

I doubt you'll have much luck convincing most people here that your version of reality is more accurate than the one described in Robert's diary.

Maybe Brad was already in discussions with the DSCC when this happened, and maybe he wasn't. But that doesn't diminish the independent efforts in the blogosphere to push his candidacy. And of course none of us were focused on Neal when Hagan and Martin were considering running. In fact, I personally was doing everything I could to get Grier into the race.

Then Hagan said "I'm not running." Then Martin said "I'm not running." Then some of us said, "Jim Neal for Senate."

If Grier Martin were to change his mind right now and enter the race, he would not have my support for the same reasons Kay doesn't have it. THEY BOTH SAID THEY WOULD NOT BE RUNNING. It doesn't matter what Paul Wellstone did or didn't do.

Others will see things differently, as you do. That's fine, but it's not all that helpful to criticize everyone who disagrees with you. I daresay the main reason this discussion is continuing to flare up and spread to the national blogs is because of your insistence that we are misguided in our views.

Just saying.

My suggestion is that we wait and see what Senator Hagan has to say.

In fact I got smacked by Dr. Frank...

for saying I'd had enough of waiting for Grier, go Marshall! I wasn't even really aware of Jim until you brought him into the mix.

One of the pitfalls of childhood is that one doesn't have to understand something to feel it. - Carlos Ruiz Zafon

Jesus Swept ticked me off. Too short. I loved the characters and then POOF it was over.
-me

That's right, you did!!

And Marshall would make a fine senator. But let's get him elected to the House, first.


Be the change you wish to see in the world. --Gandhi

always happy to help keep you in line

:-)

"85% of Republicans are Democrats who don't know what's going on." -Robert Kennedy, Jr.

"Man is free at the moment he wishes to be." -Voltaire

i meant no disrespect

And I never meant to lessen the accomplishments of the blogoshere in recruiting Brad Miller. I'm just giving another opinion on a complicated matter and challenging this phoney idea that Neal 1) came into this race as our knight on shining amour when everyone else had forsaken us and 2) That people are opposing him because he is gay. Both of those statements made in this post are WRONG and easily refutable. They both serve to create MORE division among NC dems and I find it vulgar.

Then Hagan said "I'm not running." Then Martin said "I'm not running." Then some of us said, "Jim Neal for Senate."

That's about how I saw it too Anglico. But that's a far cry from how the poster portrayed the events.

the main reason this discussion is continuing to flare up and spread to the national blogs is because of your insistence that we are misguided in our views.

I think you give me too much credit. I'm actually trying to calm the rhetoric. See my comments in your earlier post. I think saying things like

I, as much as anyone, have come out blasting the DSCC, the Democratic candidates, and anyone else who went looking for a new candidate just because Jim Neal was gay.

is unbelievably irresponsible and serves to further divide us. It also portrays Kay Hagen as a tool of homophobes.

Wow, you're a great framer.

You should go to work for someone, because you have a wonderful ability to take what happened and frame it in such a way that it looks nothing like what happened, or was said.

Unless of course you already do work for someone?

You aren't ever going to hear anyone say out loud what you are looking for, you certainly aren't going to read it in the paper, nonetheless, it is true - people don't want a gay man running against Elizabeth Dole in November.

I'm actually trying to calm the rhetoric.

Right, you're a uniter, not a divider.

Make no mistake, we're divided. There are too many democrats willing to throw homosexuals under the bus because it isn't convenient. Thankfully, once upon a time, there were people willing to throw themselves under the bus when it came time to fight for women's rights, religious rights, and racial rights.

One of the pitfalls of childhood is that one doesn't have to understand something to feel it. - Carlos Ruiz Zafon

Jesus Swept ticked me off. Too short. I loved the characters and then POOF it was over.
-me

Nope

So, your strategy is to divide the party into the incrementalists and the real true progressives. Then what? Probably have to divide again between the real civil rights advocates and those who only oppose de jure discrimination. What you're describing is the collapse of coalitions. Like it or not, major parties are broad-based alliances between different groups who share a philosophy. The Democratic party supports gay rights. We disagree about how to accomplish that goal, but we agree that gay folks should be treated as human beings, which is more than the GOP can say.

Kay Hagan isn't a bigot, and you should stop insinuating that she is. You also need to stop conjecturing about why some people are asking her to run. You don't have any evidence for your conspiratorial assertion that anti-gay forces controlling the Democratic party have secretly decided to unite behind Hagan. The fact is, people have been talking about Hagan possibly running statewide for quite a while. She's an attractive candidate.

no one is calling Kay a bigot

easy on the allegations. But I agree with the rest of what you said.

I've never said that and you know it.

I think Kay Hagan wanted to run, backed out for political reasons and now has a good opportunity to get back in because a segment of the political powers are willing to back her over Neal.

I don't think anything about her motives are in question, if I said that I would appreciate you pulling it up so I can retract it.

One of the pitfalls of childhood is that one doesn't have to understand something to feel it. - Carlos Ruiz Zafon

Jesus Swept ticked me off. Too short. I loved the characters and then POOF it was over.
-me

I'm already gainfully employed, thank you

But you should still not make unsubstantiated claims. I believe that many people don't want a homosexual to run of office. But that's not what you claimed. You claimed that the DSCC and the political elite in NC Democratic politics are opposing and saying disparaging things about Jim Neal because he is gay.
I ask you again, who is making that claim?
Are you going to hide their identity?
Are you not comfortable saying who it is?
Who at the DSCC is freaking out?
Are they freaking out now more than they were before?
They recruited Kay Hagan before Jim Neal announced, after, and now after he's been outed. That is a fact. The same goes for the NCDP and other Dem elites in this state. You make it sound as if there is a big anti-gay conspiracy when there is not.
Your allegations are incorrect and irresponsible. You have no proof of any of this outside of what you imagine to be happening with people in D.C. and Raleigh.

You know...sometimes you dont' need proof

Sometimes, a person can look at the timing of events and make assumptions based on pure common sense.

You have this major problem of putting words into people's mouths. That is a form of libel. You really are the one who needs to watch what you accuse people of doing and/or saying. Thank you.

Robin Hayes lied. Nobody died, but thousands of folks lost their jobs.



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Vote Democratic! The ass you save may be your own.

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