Gun Control Conversations

In his diary last Wednesday, Robert P. did his best to describe the middle ground he takes on gun control. There are probably many of us who fall in line with him on this issue.

I don't necessarily consider myself a gun rights or a gun control advocate. Like Robert, I fall somewhere in the middle. I realize that making something illegal isn't necessarily going to keep it out of the wrong person's hands. Then again, when it comes to something deadly, you err on the side of caution, right? Unless, you're a Republican Congress sitting idly by while the assault weapons ban is lifted.(This one I supported)

The articles in last week's Newsweek caught my attention. There was a series of articles about guns, gun control legislation, Democrats on gun control and psychological profiles of mass killers. Pages and pages of information. I read it all and only one thing jumped out at me:

The 9mm was a major visual trope in such powerful films of the early 1990s as "Boyz n the Hood" and "New Jack City." Today it's the gun of choice for the everyday criminal and cop alike, accounting for 263,000 of the roughly 815,000 handguns manufactured in the United States in 2005, according to government figures. The U.S. International Trade Commission tracks imports of handguns, which totaled 878,000 in 2005, but those aren't broken out by type, and so not even the government knows how many 9mm guns are actually sold in this country. (emphasis added)

Scary, isn't it? We track just about everything that enters this country. What we don't track are weapons that are capable of using high-capacity magazine clips. The very clips that take the advantage away from law enforcement. The very clips the filled the 9mm Glock used in the VT killings. The very clips that became legal again as Republicans sat idly by.

We shouldn't get our hopes up that Democrats will push another assault weapon ban through, however there is some positive news. It appears the gun lobby/NRA is not opposed to having mental health records added to the database used for background checks.

One Democrat who is talking: New York Rep. Carolyn McCarthy, whose husband was killed by a gunman in a 1993 shooting spree. For years, she has pushed a bill that would give states incentives to report information about criminals and the mentally ill to the National Instant Criminal Background Check database. As it is now, some states don't supply records, and others only do so sporadically. That kind of information could have stopped guns from getting into the hands of Cho, who was ruled an "imminent danger" by a judge in 2005.

McCarthy's bill passed the House in 2003, but the Senate never took it up. It will get more attention now. McCarthy's ally, Democratic Rep. John Dingell, long a gun-rights advocate, has been quietly talking with the group in hopes that the NRA will back a version of McCarthy's bill, according to The Washington Post. "We have no problem with mental-health records being part of the [database]," a source close to the gun lobby, who asked not to be named talking about internal matters, tells NEWSWEEK.

What do you think? Is this a no brainer, or does it infringe on the rights of the mentally ill? Could this be handled so that private medical data remains private?

Comments

So much more data out there

so many arguments for tighter gun control and so many arguments against.

I realize this needs to be fleshed out, but I'd rather get discussions going here to help that process instead of just spitting back out at you what the different factions have to say.

I have to run do the school carpool routine. Will be back in a bit.

Robin Hayes lied. Nobody died, but thousands of folks lost their jobs.



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Vote Democratic! The ass you save may be your own.

such a sticky topic

It's a shame that it only gets taken up after such a tragedy has occured. To me it just makes sense that if someone is diagnosed as a danger to themselves or society that info would be put into the national database and be viewed by those issueing a gun permit. What ever happened to the 20 day "cooling period"?

Whatever is decided, it should be inforced and nationwide, not different rules for different states. As it stands now, if you can't get a gun in one state because of the rules, just drive across the border to another state with different more lenient rules.

No matter that patriotism is too often the refuge of scoundrels. Dissent, rebellion, and all-around hell-raising remain the true duty of patriots.

Progressive Discussions

It is a sticky topic

but it shouldn't be. We should be able to talk about which gun control rules/laws/guidelines, etc actually accomplish a safer society without infringing too much on the rights of gun owners. When is the NRA just another special interest group that is incapable of compromise and when are they really standing up for the rights of gun owners? Then, after we're all happy with whatever legislation we settle on, we have to deal with the realization that no matter what we do, there will always be people who will break our shiny new laws.

Robin Hayes lied. Nobody died, but thousands of folks lost their jobs.



***************************
Vote Democratic! The ass you save may be your own.

Sorry, but your info is wrong

There was no "assault weapons ban." The "ban" just banned the manufacture or import of NEW "ugly guns" and high-capacity (over 10 rounds) magazines. There was NO prohibition on the sale or "pre-ban" items. The supply was and is so plentiful that all the "ban" accomplished was making money for some hoarders/speculators very early on before prices settled back down to close to pre-ban levels.

I personally bought and sold many "banned" items during the "ban" perfectly legally.

Say what you want about gun control and the need for much better integration on the mental health side with background checks, but don't let anyone lead you to believe that anything was really made illegal or hard to get by the "assault weapons ban."

Musta misunderstood what I read

I vaguely remember the part about "pre-ban" items.

What really stuck out when I was reading it was the rationale behind banning the high-capacity magazines for all but law inforcement. It made sense that law enforcement would have at least some advantage.



***************************
Vote Democratic! The ass you save may be your own.

Also, unless I'm mistaken...

the ban was very wimpy, it relied on four or five things to "qualify" a gun as a banned gun. And, it was easy for manufacturers to avoid these restrictions and basically turn out hte same gun.
Right?

One man with courage makes a majority.
- Andrew Jackson

Jesus Swept ticked me off. Too short. I loved the characters and then POOF it was over.
-me

Yeah...I vaguely remember something I read on

conversion kits. I think these were banned for certain types of guns. I just don't remember specifics.

Robin Hayes lied. Nobody died, but thousands of folks lost their jobs.



***************************
Vote Democratic! The ass you save may be your own.

With your wealth of knowledge SPLib

on this subject, I would like to hear more about what directionsyou think should be taken.

No matter that patriotism is too often the refuge of scoundrels. Dissent, rebellion, and all-around hell-raising remain the true duty of patriots.

Progressive Discussions

Better background checks

Not a criminal? Not mentally ill? Let them buy guns and ammo.

They just need to get the systems tie in better.

BTW, I bought my first handgun while living in Orange County. To get a permit, I had to get notarized statements from two different people vouching for my character and mental health(to the best of their knowledge). Then the Sherriff ran a background check. Then the gun dealer ran another check. Then I waited five days. If the background checks accessed all the info needed and the guy at VA Tech had to get character statements from two people PLUS the criminal checks, he wouldn't have been legally able to obtain those handguns.

You'd think so -

But Cho's room-mates were on television for a week saying "he was so quiet, and just played video games". Those guys would have given him a character reference. They didn't know about the involuntary commitment, or the other problems. Cho wouldn't have asked the people who had problems with him to supply the statements, and he had no criminal record.

See my post below about how Virginia is trying to prevent a similar sequence of events from happening again.

This is such a tricky issue for me. I am mostly in the middle on this, but as Southern Dem says, I prefer to err on the side of caution. However, I believe strongly in both personal freedom and privacy. If guns are properly respected, regulated, and licensed, I really don't have an issue with them.

_____________
The Den
My darling girl, when will you understand that 'normal' isn't necessarily a virtue. It rather denotes a lack of courage." - Alice Hoffman, Practical Magic

I don't have an issue with them either

but I also don't have an issue with a full ban on assault weapons. That's one reason I like to hear someone else's opinion on it.

Robin Hayes lied. Nobody died, but thousands of folks lost their jobs.



***************************
Vote Democratic! The ass you save may be your own.

I am with the King's Sword & Musket division! Your papers please

With your wealth of knowledge SPLib

on this subject, I would like to hear more about what directionsyou think should be taken.*momoaizo

Possible direction to be taken if George goes more bunkers in the next 18 months...Now is not the time to trash the 2 nd amendment......

Blueprint for Dictatorship
Recent legislation sets us up for tyranny
by Justin Raimondo

America is headed for a military dictatorship – and recent legislation makes this all but inevitable. Last September, Congress passed the Defense Authorization Act, which empowered the president to declare martial law with very little provocation, namely in the aftermath of a "terrorist attack or incident." Having determined that "the execution of the laws" is hampered by the "incident," the president can unilaterally impose martial law – without the consent of Congress, which need only be informed of the event "as soon as practicable." The only condition attached instructs the president to report to Congress after 14 days, and every 14 days thereafter.

This use of the military to enforce domestic order is a new development in American history, one that augurs a turning point not only in terms of law, but also in our evolving political culture. Such a measure would once have provoked an outcry – on both sides of the aisle. When the measure passed, there was hardly a ripple of protest: the Senate approved it unanimously, and there were only thirty-something dissenting votes in the House. Added to the Military Commissions Act [.pdf], this new brick in the wall of domestic repression creates the structure of a new imperial system on the ruins of the old constitutional order. George W. Bush and his hard-core neoconservative henchmen may have lost the war in Iraq, but they have won a virtually uncontested victory at home: the conquest of the old republic by an emerging imperial order.

Whatever happened to those rules?

That just seems to make more sense when it comes to issuing a permit for a weapon of "mass destruction".

No matter that patriotism is too often the refuge of scoundrels. Dissent, rebellion, and all-around hell-raising remain the true duty of patriots.

Progressive Discussions

This is what's required now for a handgun

According to The Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence (which gives NC a "C"):

North Carolina: State law requires handgun buyers to obtain a permit from law enforcement prior to purchasing a handgun. The permit only involves a background check - no safety training or fingerprints are required. Law enforcement may take up to 30 days for the background check on the permit applicant. The fee for the permit is $5 and it is valid for five years. A separate handgun permit must be aquired for each handgun purchase.

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The Den
My darling girl, when will you understand that 'normal' isn't necessarily a virtue. It rather denotes a lack of courage." - Alice Hoffman, Practical Magic

I am sure this is right...

I know that the bit about not having to have any training is right, but some of the other stuff I think is off. I am in the process of saving up for a handgun and was told by the dealer that I would have to get my finger prints taken...I haven't done it, but that is what I was told. Also, I now here at least it takes nowhere near the 30 days to complete the background check.

I would like to spend more time on this as it is something that I care deeply about, but history class is calling.

The Great appear great because we are on our knees – Let Us Rise!
-- “Big Jim” Larkin

The Great appear great because we are on our knees – Let Us Rise!
-- “Big Jim” Larkin

Virginia has closed their loophole.

According to CNN, the state of Virginia has closed the 'loophole' that allowed the gunman in the VT tragedy to purchase guns.

Kaine issued an executive order requiring that a database of people who are prohibited from buying guns include anyone found to be dangerous and ordered to undergo involuntary mental health treatment.

Once the individual is entered into the Virginia database, the name gets picked up by a national database that is used by gun dealers nationwide. Also, individuals who voluntarily seek help for a mental illness will not be added to the database, only those who are involuntarily committed.

Interesting - I wonder if it will hold up to a court challenge?
____________
The Den
My darling girl, when will you understand that 'normal' isn't necessarily a virtue. It rather denotes a lack of courage." - Alice Hoffman, Practical Magic

It sounds fair enough

I wonder how long it will take for a challenge?

Robin Hayes lied. Nobody died, but thousands of folks lost their jobs.



***************************
Vote Democratic! The ass you save may be your own.

I might be the only one

But I'm perfectly content with the current gun laws. Society cannot allow the statistical outliers to create fear and knee-jerk reactions. I honestly do not believe anything could have stopped the slaughter at Virginia Tech. Likewise, the assault weapon ban wasn't a ban. It was nothing more than a piece of feel good legislation with not impact, other than driving up the price and value of the supposedly banned items.

I agree we can't always legislate for outliers

what really brought this on was the quote stating that there are no statistics that tell us how many of what type of guns are being imported into the US. What would we do with this information. Oh, I don't know. Monitor it. It seems like it would be handy data to have...what with this global war on terra and all.

Robin Hayes lied. Nobody died, but thousands of folks lost their jobs.



***************************
Vote Democratic! The ass you save may be your own.

The guns banned aren't any

The guns banned aren't any different than guns you could buy during the ban, except the banned guns looked "dangerous." That's all the assault weapon ban accomplished. I don't know what monitoring those weapons in respect to the war on terra would accomplish either.

I wasn't being literal :)

However, it makes sense to monitor the number of each type of firearm imported.

Robin Hayes lied. Nobody died, but thousands of folks lost their jobs.



***************************
Vote Democratic! The ass you save may be your own.

pssssst

we'd have the money to keep those records if we weren't prosecuting a ridiculous occupation of a country that never attacked us or showed aggression towards us.

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The Den
My darling girl, when will you understand that 'normal' isn't necessarily a virtue. It rather denotes a lack of courage." - Alice Hoffman, Practical Magic

We will not legislate crazy or criminal people out of society..

Nor will we be able to keep guns out of the hands of "normal" people who just decide to go kill someone.

We can do what is reasonable,prudent and acceptable in society at large.

Fear should not drive our decisions. The past six years may have taught us something about that.

Which weapons are too much, besides military weapons?

What is the reasonable place in society we can find to midigate the problem and still retain what is considered a fundamental right of law abiding American citizens?

We have to continue working at it to find what is the place we can all agree to that we can call "our way".

The Federal Government is not the answer. They will only make it worse. Give this issue exclusivly to the Federal Government and the Patriot act will be used against us all.

If all gun sales were banned in America today, there would still be about 200 million guns in the hands of Americans, a brisk black market from overseas would open and guns would be even more available than they are today without background checks.

In a free country there are certain risks and challanges we have to work out and find answers to. Banning everthing that could potentially hurt us is ludicrous.

No , I am not a member of the NRA.

I cherish every liberty and every right. I am not willing to sacrifice even the ones I do not enjoy. In fact I hope to expand our freedoms as American citizens. Greater freedom will manifest greater strength.

More government is not the answer. More responsible legislators, and workable solutions for a civil society is a good start. Civil responsibility being taught in our elementry schools might help a bit as well.

Jailing violent criminals and finding ways for non-violent criminals to serve society and their victims could be a way to go as well.

To many non-violent people are locked up in prisons in America.

Killers, rapist, armed robbers, gangsters, those who would hurt our children and drug pushers should be locked up in America. We should remove them from society.

Non-violent crimes may indicate that there is a victim out there who needs to be paid back or compensated in some way. Non violent offenders should be paying back what they took from society, not letting us support them in a jail cell somewhere.

Of course there are always non-violent exceptions who should go to jail, but that should be the exception. In states like Texas it is the rule. They can't build prisons fast enough to house non-violent offenders there.

Guns should always be an issue. That is one way we keep State and Federal attention on the subject, but lets midigate in reality least the only one profiting from the issue is the lobbyist and the lawyers.

Yes I know for someone like me to be saying things like this could be harmful to my aspirations, but I have spent my life taking these kinds of risks. Its hard to stop now.

This place has really shaken my awareness. I think it is great. Thanks to you all. Okay...Now you can yell at me.

Marshall Adame
2014 U.S. Congress Candidate NC-03

Once a person has been

identified as crazy or criminal, they forfit their right to carry and bare arms.

A compatent medical professional performs this and determines an individual meets a requirement of crazy then him having a gun is bad. period. he loses that as he is not of a rational mind.

certian criminals also should forfit their right to carry and bare arms. I dont have a problem with either of these. Laws are made to protect the common good of society and protect the rights as outlined within the constatution.

I do not want a gun in the hands of a "crazy" person.

A sane person who has been adjudicated as a high risk criminal deserves to lose his right to a gun. He has proven once he is a threat to society, dont give him a second chance to "get it right" with access to a gun.

With all that said, guns and the United States cannot be seperated.

I have a problem with who gets to determine "crazy"

I don't want anyone who "shouldn't" have a gun to have one. I just don't know who gets to decide that. Is it the doctor who thought the crippling joint pain I had was all in my head? He thought I was "crazy". I'm not - a better informed doctor accurately diagnosed and is treating a chronic condition.

However, I have been prescribed anti-depressants before. Perhaps that doesn't make me "crazy" - but people who have been prescribed anti-depressants are probably more likely to commit suicide. Should I be able to purchase a gun?

I'm just not sure how you draw the line.

_____________
The Den
My darling girl, when will you understand that 'normal' isn't necessarily a virtue. It rather denotes a lack of courage." - Alice Hoffman, Practical Magic

Yeah, it is.

Thank goodness I found the right doctor (actually certified nurse practitioner) who stuck with me.

_____________
The Den
My darling girl, when will you understand that 'normal' isn't necessarily a virtue. It rather denotes a lack of courage." - Alice Hoffman, Practical Magic

The nurse practitioner at the pediatric office

saved Katie's life once, when the doctors wouldn't listen.

Robin Hayes lied. Nobody died, but thousands of folks lost their jobs.



***************************
Vote Democratic! The ass you save may be your own.

It is very real

as is the overwhelming exhaustion.

Robin Hayes lied. Nobody died, but thousands of folks lost their jobs.



***************************
Vote Democratic! The ass you save may be your own.

I think we should talk!

_____________
The Den
My darling girl, when will you understand that 'normal' isn't necessarily a virtue. It rather denotes a lack of courage." - Alice Hoffman, Practical Magic

Any old time!



Robin Hayes lied. Nobody died, but thousands of folks lost their jobs.



***************************
Vote Democratic! The ass you save may be your own.

Other Countries that have our rate of Gun Fatalities

I need to say that guns in our USA make for more deaths: Other countries dont kill eachother as much.

http://www.harvardmagazine.com/on-line/090433.html
"Statistically, the United States is not a particularly violent society. Although gun proponents like to compare this country with hot spots like Colombia, Mexico, and Estonia (making America appear a truly peaceable kingdom), a more relevant comparison is against other high-income, industrialized nations. The percentage of the U.S. population victimized in 2000 by crimes like assault, car theft, burglary, robbery, and sexual incidents is about average for 17 industrialized countries, and lower on many indices than Canada, Australia, or New Zealand.

"The only thing that jumps out is lethal violence," Hemenway says. Violence, pace H. Rap Brown, is not "as American as cherry pie," but American violence does tend to end in death. The reason, plain and simple, is guns. We own more guns per capita than any other high-income country—maybe even more than one gun for every man, woman, and child in the country. A 1994 survey numbered the U.S. gun supply at more than 200 million in a population then numbered at 262 million, and currently about 35 percent of American households have guns. (These figures count only civilian guns; Switzerland, for example, has plenty of military weapons per capita.)

"It's not as if a 19-year-old in the United States is more evil than a 19-year-old in Australia—there's no evidence for that," Hemenway explains. "But a 19-year-old in America can very easily get a pistol. That's very hard to do in Australia. So when there's a bar fight in Australia, somebody gets punched out or hit with a beer bottle. Here, they get shot."

In general, guns don't induce people to commit crimes. "What guns do is make crimes lethal," says Hemenway. They also make suicide attempts lethal: about 60 percent of suicides in America involve guns. "If you try to kill yourself with drugs, there's a 2 to 3 percent chance of dying," he explains. "With guns, the chance is 90 percent."

....Virtually all industrialized nations have stronger firearms laws than the United States. "
there is more on that Harvard Magazine article so check the link.

David Price
says when he speaks to folks who support the right to have guns, they usually agree with him that folks should not own guns unless they have been properly trained and tested on their use...they do agree with him that folks with risk factor s for poor judgment, should not be permitted to own guns. THERE ARE POINTS OF AGREEMENT- It is not a simple solution. But there are some steps we shouid work toward.

Other Facts and Statistics from assorted places posted on thewebsite http://www.ncgv.org/FactsStatistics_home.html

· There are more guns in the United States today than in any other modern industrialized country. At last count, there were roughly 200 million firearms in private hands in the U.S.- almost one for every American adult. (Douglass Wiebe, Annals of Emergency Medicine, June 2003, vol. 41, pp 771-782.)

· The firearm death rate in the U.S. for children 14 and younger is nearly 12 times higher than the combined rate in 25 other modern industrialized nations. (National Center for Injury Control & Prevention, 2003)

· While firearms are at times used by private citizens to kill criminals or stop crimes, the Center for Disease Control and Prevention reports that the most common scenario of gun use in America in 2001, the most recent final data available, are suicide (16,869), homicide (11,617) or fatal, unintentional injury (802). Guns kept in the home for self-protection are 22 times more likely to kill a family member or friend than to kill an assailant in self-defense. (Kellerman, Journal, Trauma, 1998)

· Gun violence costs Americans about $100 billion annually in direct health-care expenditures, lost productivity, personal efforts to manage risk, expenditures for prevention by public agencies, and a general reduction in society's quality of life. (Cook and Ludwig, Gun Violence: The Real Costs, 2000)

· Guns are the only U.S. product (other than tobacco) exempt from Federal Safety oversight. Toy guns and teddy bears are regulated- real guns are not. (Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, 2003)

· North Carolina is the 5th leading source for crime handguns recovered in other states. (Columbia University School of Public Health, 2003)

· Over 1,000 North Carolinians die every year from gun violence. Total deaths for the year 2004 were 1046 adults and children. (Office of the NC Chief Medical Examiner, 2005)

· In 2004 (the latest figures available), approximately every nine days a North Carolina child seventeen or younger was killed by a gun in a homicide, suicide, or unintentional shooting. (NC Office of the Chief Medical Examiner, 2005)

· North Carolina is 9th highest in the number of men killing women, usually women they know and usually with a gun. (Violence Policy Center, 2004)

· In 2004, 48 of 81 (59%) domestic violence victims in North Carolina were killed with guns.

TurnNCBlue

Facts don't lie

Thanks for posting this. It proves that anything short of removing handguns from society is just tugging on Superman's cape.

The way we (Americans) have this argument shows we care a lot more about some abstract notion related to liberty (couched in 18th century thinking that fails to transcend modern times) than actual problems that plague all of us, either directly through death and destruction or indirectly through sharing in tragedies and rising healthcare costs.

Facts don't lie. Just like they don't lie when other extremely capitalist countries like Taiwan decide enough is enough and go to universal, single payer healthcare. We don't need to be so arrogant at to insist on having an American solution to this scourge on our way of life----for once, just freaking once, we should follow somebody else's lead on this issue. Pick a country----Austrailia, Canada---wherever.

War is over if you want it.

This is a hard subject

I would be happy to live in a world where no guns exist. I will never own one. That statement was just to let you know where I fall personally.

I also am an attorney. I believe in the entire Constitution and believe there was good reason for the second amendment. I also think that many people in this country have perverted the amendment until it is unreasonable and cumbersome to a real discussion about crime in this country.

I also have many friends who are hunters and love when they bring home venison for my enjoyment. But how serious do the weapons have to be to hunt deer?

Guns are given special consideration in the consitution, but to say that there can be no regulation of guns is beyond the bounds of logic. "The right to swing your arm ends at the other person's nose." No single person's rights in this country are absolute because they necessarily conflict with other's rights. The conversation on gun control has so digressed into absolutes that there is no discussing it anymore.

I am glad to see this thread, because a real dialogue is the only way to solve our gun problem.

Where I have a problem is the

argument that runs a little like so..."I should get to own whatever weapon I want simply b/c I want to own it."....... That doesn't work for me with guns. I really do want to hear the reasons others have for wanting or not wanting legislation that restricts gun ownership. I'm not challenging anyone. I am sincerely interested in hearing how people feel.

Robin Hayes lied. Nobody died, but thousands of folks lost their jobs.



***************************
Vote Democratic! The ass you save may be your own.

The lines are hard because society does not respect soft stands.

As unfortunate as it is, American society has been politicaly conditioned, by both main political spectrems , that any position, societal, or political, with room for compromise is a cop-out of no fortitude or conviction. We are trapped in our own extremes. Guns, or no guns!. And thats it.

We are our own prisoners of ideas and the guards are the extremist of both parties who demonize anyone who talks about reason or compromise.

The good news is that I am sencing a change in our society which may permit us all to come together and actually deal with the proliferation of guns in America and still respect what tradition and presidence has determined as a "right" to bear arms.

As for me, I personally do own guns, in fact, my collection includes a 1902 Colt 38 ACP which is rare and old. (I collect antiques). Having said that I must also say that, if I had to wait a month or two to allow for the appropriate checks prior to picking up a gun I might purchase, I am alright with that.

I really believe both sides of the argument have valid concerns and viable arguments.

Changing society is another question all together.

Marshall Adame
2014 U.S. Congress Candidate NC-03

I find it interesting

that no one has mentioned that Cho was not a US citizen, and as such, should he have been allowed to purchase a gun? I don't think so.

The authorities in Virginia should have had at least 2 ways to know he should not have been allowed to buy a gun - his mental status, and his status as a non-citizen. These are exclusions that should apply nation-wide, or they would be ineffective.

I have no issue with people who hunt. I wish a hunter had gotten that deer that hit my car last year before my $1,700 fender did.

I think there are too many cheap handguns in this country and that they are too easy for criminals to obtain. I'll propose a market-based solution that even our right-wing friends would love (at least part of):

-protect domestic gun manufaturers by banning imports.
-cap domestic production levels so they can't "fill the gap".
-establish a minimum price for gun sales to keep new, cheap guns off the market.
-institute a national gun buy-back program at prices higher that the street corner rate to pull guns out of circulation. It's chepar to buy a $200 gun for $600 than it is pay for an emergency room visit. Or a funeral.

No matter how you read it, there is nothing in the 2nd Amendment about the right to bear cheap arms.

Funny you mention that

-establish a minimum price for gun sales to keep new, cheap guns off the market.

First off, I'll say I have no use for cheap handguns(Lorcin, Raven, etc.). Though part of my owning one is for self-protection, I do also appreciate a well-designed and well-crafted firearm.

Back to your suggestion. One of the interesting arguments that comes up when someone is trying to ban cheap gus is that banning them makes them less affordable for people who don't have much money. The argument goes that lower income people living in high-crime neighborhoods need guns for self defense more than anyone else. Not my argument, but one that comes up and one that on most other subjects would be coming from Progressives.

Also, good point on the gun buyback prices. If you've ever seen the guns that come back in these programs, they are mostly rifles and mostly in very poor condition. Surely most are not what people are worried about on the street.