Egg on my face - Open Thread

Boy, oh boy! I sure do feel terrible. I thought it was a good time to highlight our LG live-blog sessions. I had in the back of my mind that all three of the more "progressive" candidates had already been offered individual live-blog opportunities. I was wrong. Both Hampton Dellinger and Pat Smathers have been invited to live-blog with us and an invitation will also be sent to Walter Dalton as well. I apologize for the oversight.

Our discussions on the LG race had stayed so civil for so long and it's disappointing seeing that civility unravel a bit. Hopefully, we can get back on track. We are faced with an amazing group of progressive candidates vying for the job and we should appreciate their efforts and willingness to serve enough to keep our discussions about them on topic. These are candidates we want to see serving this state and its people in some capacity now or in the future. It's in our best interest to avoid ripping them to shreds trying to determine which is the MOST progressive.

[UPDATE] - Before I could finish my lecture I heard from the Smathers campaign. We are on for February 21 with the time to be announced, but it will be in the evening.

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We now have a time as well as a date

Pat Smathers will join us for a live-blog session on February 21 at 7:00 p.m. Be there or be considered a huge loser. :)

Robin Hayes lied. Nobody died, but thousands of folks lost their jobs.



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Vote Democratic! The ass you save may be your own.

Thank you, Betsy.

I've largely stayed out of the LG discussions, mostly because the tone has been so depressing. The rash of criticism leveled at Hampton Dellinger, in particular, has really saddened me. I know him to be a solid progressive on every issue that I consider important.

It's tough

I have no problem with pointing out someone's public record on issues, highlighting something said - especially in an official capacity, or even discussing doubts about a candidate, but all three we've met here at BlueNC are progressive and all four are better than anything the Republicans will put on the ballot. I feel we need to be careful how we express doubts about people we'd all like to see serving the people of this state.

Robin Hayes lied. Nobody died, but thousands of folks lost their jobs.



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Vote Democratic! The ass you save may be your own.

I can

agree to that. Things are starting to get needlessly stressful on here. (for instance, and this is a true story: I woke up from a dream this morning that i was at a house of a Dellinger supporter and in the jungle-like back yard i saw Besse and Smathers signs. They were all over, on sheds, nailed on trees (I remember, oddly, feeling sad for the trees--not because of who they were supporting, but because of the long nails driven into them)--it was really weird. We then realized that the campaigns had snuck into the yard to put up the sign. Then, in the front yard i saw a Dellinger sign that had a county commissioner candidate on the reverse side. I remember thinking to myself, hey that's a good idea, both candidates can split the cost. And then i starting thinking that was very very weird) I woke up feeling deflated. Then, still in bed (hey, it was cold), i scooted to the other side and grabbed my laptop off the chair. Laying in bed I checked over-night emails and Blue NC.

i'm pretty sure i can attribute this psychologically turmoil to my obsessive blogging of late, and in the atmosphere it has taken place. Either I need to leave the discussion (which would be no large loss I'm sure), or we need to turn down the volume a bit. Of course i can't leave, but it would be nice if things could be a little more respectful. (sometime I get a yearning for the age when the dialouge, especially amongst well versed, intelligent people--even when they were "enemies"--seemed to have been less shrill. I think I read to much history)

The Good Old Days.

The presidential election of 1800 was a continuance of the partisan bickering of the 1796 bout, in which Adams successfully cast Jefferson as the weaker candidate. However, during Adams’ term of office, several of his policies were questioned as abuses of the executive power....The Democratic-Republicans formed the first state parties in order to support Thomas Jefferson and attacked Adams as a quasi-monarch with a history of elitism. The Federalist responded with the same rhetoric against Jefferson that was used in 1796: Jefferson was an atheist Francophile who would engage in an American version of the ongoing French revolution, a “reign of terror” that would tear apart the nation.

Jesus Swept ticked me off. Too short. I loved the characters and then POOF it was over.
-me

But they said

it NICELY, or at least eloquently. Look, I've smacked people around on more than a few occasions but the least you can do is do it less harsh rhetoric. It takes the steam of assaults and makes them more stomachable to everyone involved. If you're not a nice person, at least do it because it works! :)

Well there's this other aspect to consider . . .

I've noticed that folks sometimes read a tone in where none was necessarily intended (Anglico). It's helpful to not just step away from the mud but to avoid projecting "snarkiness" to a post that just might lend itself to being read another way.

I was recently accused of being "hard to get along with" because *someone* decided to read a tone into my post that was unintended.

The truth is that almost anything a person writes can be read in a nasty tone if a reader is bound and determined to be offended.

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing
-Edmund Burke

Good Old Days, Part 2

Nixon's focus on an experience in foreign and domestic policy was undercut by one of his own. A tired and irritated President Eisenhower was anxious to end a press conference. A reporter asked what major decisions the Vice-President had participated in making. Eisenhower responded, "If you give me a week, I might think of one." The response was not meant as a slight to Nixon, but as an attempt to make light of his own mental fatigue. Never the less, the slip came to the delight of Democrats and stimulated JFK to face challenge Nixon's charges of inexperience. Kennedy quipped, " Mr. Nixon is experienced, experienced in the policies of retreat, defeat, and weakness."

Jesus Swept ticked me off. Too short. I loved the characters and then POOF it was over.
-me

Good Old Days, Part 3

I can't find this one in the Google. But, I remember reading about a debate back in the late 1700s, early 1800s, which was between the Andrew Jacksonesque candidate and the Victorian candidate. The Jacksonesque candidate lampooned his opponent as an aristocrat and to prove it he dashed over and ripped his shirt-sleeves out of his jacket cuffs, showing that the man had on frilly, silk, sleeves.

Jesus Swept ticked me off. Too short. I loved the characters and then POOF it was over.
-me

This one absolutely cracks me up



Robin Hayes lied. Nobody died, but thousands of folks lost their jobs.



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Vote Democratic! The ass you save may be your own.

[big smile]

You crack me up. They were indeed known for sleeve riping and public caining at times...
But, still, those are just the salient things on google. autobiographies, biographies and dairies show the more civil side of every-day discussion among opponents (at least in educated society--and I'm pretty sure the average degree holding on Blue NC is pretty high)

I think the criticism has been valid

considering the way he's chosen to run his campaign. Karma works, and what goes around comes around. I was curious about the NARAL endorsement and it only took one google search to show how closely he was tied to that organization. It doesn't take away from his acheivements, but it does make the endorsement, in my mind, mean less, because his mom and his wife, were heavily involved with the organization that endorsed him.

Also, I think that the zealousness felt by Dellinger's supporters has been interpreted as hubris by some. That never goes over well, and is bound to stir up the nasties. It's politics, and it happens. We all know it. For the most part, we've been able to keep things polite. I think it's stayed that way in the Governor's race because, well, neither candidate is inspiring that much passion. In a way, that's a shame.

Be the change you wish to see in the world. --Gandhi

I really think it's only been one supporter

and I don't think it's fair to lay the fault for his shortcomings at Hampton's feet. Some of the Besse supporters have been a bit snippy as well and I wouldn't fault Dan for that.

Robin Hayes lied. Nobody died, but thousands of folks lost their jobs.



***************************
Vote Democratic! The ass you save may be your own.

It's human nature.

We saw similar zeal and hurt feelings and what not when John Edwards dropped out of the race and Obama supporters were excited over wins. It's politics, and it's to be expected.

When you are truly invested in a campaign, as many were in the Edwards campaign, perceived attacks on the candidate are taken as attacks on one's own personal integrity. Human nature. The same has happened with one or two Dellinger supporters, and a couple of Besse supporters, to a lesser degree. It's going to happen.

Be the change you wish to see in the world. --Gandhi

I disagree.

One can firmly rebut attacks on their candidate without sinking to the attacker's level. That's character, and to me it is more consequential than loose claims about human nature.

Having been guilty

of sinking myself in the past, I can say it is both easy and personally uplifting to step away from the mud. I still slip every now and then, but mostly I try to keep my eyes on the prize.

It is also human nature to tell people

they need to grow up when they are behaving like children. I believe you've taken that upon yourself a time or two.

I was told after addressing DFL and the vitriolic nature of some of his comments that my "sanctimonious lectures on blogging etiquette and politesse" were unwelcome. I have one reply to that.

Tough shit.

Robin Hayes lied. Nobody died, but thousands of folks lost their jobs.



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Vote Democratic! The ass you save may be your own.

hahahah

i hear you i hear you. I think one person may have rubbed you the wrong way (god i hate that phraseology), but please don't let that affect your view of Hampton as a person and a candidate.

Oh...No...I am a Hampton fan

I'm also a Besse fan and a Smathers fan. I probably won't know who I'm going to vote for until the day before I vote and I'll still feel a little sick when I make my selection because I know that I will not be voting for at least two very fine, very capable, progressive Democrats. That hurts, you know?

Robin Hayes lied. Nobody died, but thousands of folks lost their jobs.



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Vote Democratic! The ass you save may be your own.

My comment above is not addressed to just one person

It is addressed to everyone. Sorry for any confusion.

I am only referencing my previous exchange with DFL to give some background for the PM that came with the quoted comment. We're trying to attract candidates to BlueNC for live-blogs, interviews and their own personal blogging. If what they witness is BlueNC members tearing good Dems apart, I doubt we'll have too many takers. I will do my best to follow my own suggestions/advice.



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Vote Democratic! The ass you save may be your own.

that would be great!

That would be a wonderful approach.

Don't make me pull out more pictures of my kids!

"85% of Republicans are Democrats who don't know what's going on." -Robert Kennedy, Jr.

"Man is free at the moment he wishes to be." -Voltaire

however,

i should add that i have experienced the feeling of increased blood flow when i or a candidate I'm supporting is being attacked. And I've lashed out before. But i think we ought to try to be as civil as possible. No one's perfect, but we should make a concerted effort to play nice--especially against other Democrats!

No need to play nice with Republicans

:D

I'm not even talking in general.....I'm talking specifically about three progressive Democrats.

Robin Hayes lied. Nobody died, but thousands of folks lost their jobs.



***************************
Vote Democratic! The ass you save may be your own.

Speaking of egg on face

McCrory has just hired the Puppetshow's own Jack Hawke as part of his "garage band" campaign.

Jack Hawke? McCrory must really be sucking the dregs to align himself so closely with the Puppetmaster Pope.

I am SO

waiting for the attacks on Gore's statement of support for Hampton and their having lunch together in Tennessee to get going. Watch ppl cry elitist and family connections.

The LG race is on Al Gore's radar? Hell F-ing yeah. Example of how Hampton's wide family and friends network could be an asset, not a liability, to the state.

Elitist! Family Connections!

Just thought I'd fill the void. Besse is my candidate, but I have no problem with Dellinger. One does get the impression that he's the golden boy and that, much like Al Gore, he is expecting the crown to be lightly greased with holy oil when the seraphim plant it on his noble brow. I ain't holdin' it agin' him.

But I think Besse has more experience and has worked harder to get where he is, so it's natural to notice the contrast in their respective auras.

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing
-Edmund Burke

hahaha

people do have a good sense of humor on here. something tells Blue Nc'ers were the people who argued a lot in school (about real shit) and made off-color jokes that only a few people got.

I judged a high-school debate tournament this weekend.

Give them 5 years, and those kids will be here. Well, some of them, anyhow. There were a number of them that were quite conservative. However, they really knew what they were doing - and indeed, made jokes that I'm quite sure that the rest of the student body didn't get.

It was so much fun. And I recruited 3 more teen dems, too. :-D I plied them with tattoos that persondem gave me. I just wore one on my hand. Hah! Persondem, you are a genius.

Be the change you wish to see in the world. --Gandhi

Ah geez, you just like to "see" me blush!! :)

Sounds like your teens are really rockin'. The teens up here are so hit or miss it's bothersome.

I am glad the 'toos are working for you. Next time I see you (Feb 29 is a possibility) I'll have to give you some more.

Cheers.

Person County Democrats

I actively oppose gerrymandering. Do you?

cheers to you, dear.

Teens are hard to get, but the debate group is naturally political. These kids actually knew policy stuff. w00t! I'm putting them on the phone next week.

Be the change you wish to see in the world. --Gandhi

Holy Moly

I haven't been to HuffPo in a while. It's changed in looks quite a bit hasn't it?

Yes, this is an open thread and I have no idea why Clemens would go see that old bat. Maybe she requested a private audience.

Robin Hayes lied. Nobody died, but thousands of folks lost their jobs.



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Vote Democratic! The ass you save may be your own.

Ewwww

Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting

"Foxx shows support for illegal drug user"

Funny, I don't recall seeing any pictures of her at halfway houses or rehab centers for people who've gotten addicted to crack or meth and who are trying to put their lives back in place.

Jesus Swept ticked me off. Too short. I loved the characters and then POOF it was over.
-me

Too bad she's not in the photo

That would really make Anglico say ewwww.

Remember her groping Bush last year . . . Now I'm grossing myself out.
 
News of the 10th district: See Pat Go Bye Bye,

Brad Miller may have opposition

A man by the name of Christopher Knight out of Reidsville filed to open an eploratory committee back in November. Sorry, I just found this at the FEC.

The good news is he didn't file a report at the year's end with any fundraising numbers, so he might not have had the financial support needed to make the plunge.

Robin Hayes lied. Nobody died, but thousands of folks lost their jobs.



***************************
Vote Democratic! The ass you save may be your own.

Christopher Knight?

Wasn't he on the Brady Bunch?

"jump in where you can and hang on"
Briscoe Darling to Sheriff Andy

Indeed.

Porkchops and Applesauce. He also has made quite a name for himself on VH1 reality shows.

Be the change you wish to see in the world. --Gandhi

Giving away the punch line.....

Here's just a little taste of what I'm working on. I was floored by it and should have it up tomorrow. I was meandering innocently through Sue Myrick's FEC reports and I noticed that since the 1996 cycle her opponents had only raised collectively $217,312.97....approximately. That's pretty pitiful, but her district is heavily Republican and not really all that competitive. She probably doesn't have to do much to get re-elected.

Somebody needs to tell Sue that. During the same time period she's funneled $1,294,869.90 (approximately) through her/her husband's advertising firm.

Overkill?

Robin Hayes lied. Nobody died, but thousands of folks lost their jobs.



***************************
Vote Democratic! The ass you save may be your own.

Wait.....

are you saying that in 1996, 1998, 2000, 2004, 2006, and now 2008 her opponents have raised $200K (give or take). But, that she has spent $1.3 MILLION (you have two periods and one comma in there) through her family advertising firm?

Jesus Swept ticked me off. Too short. I loved the characters and then POOF it was over.
-me

That's exactly what I'm saying

...and I'll edit my mess and clean it up....

Oh...and she's never won with less than 67% of the vote and that was in 2006.

[edit]Not 2008 and I couldn't find FEC numbers for 2004, so didn't include the amount raised by her opponent that year.



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Vote Democratic! The ass you save may be your own.

That makes it a lot easier to survive,

on a Congressional salary.

Jesus Swept ticked me off. Too short. I loved the characters and then POOF it was over.
-me

Buhleeve it or not...I think it's perfectly legal/allowed

as long as Myrick Gunter Advertising provided services as described and didn't pad the bill.

The question is....was it necessary for Sue Myrick to spend that amount of money on advertising?

Robin Hayes lied. Nobody died, but thousands of folks lost their jobs.



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Vote Democratic! The ass you save may be your own.

Of course it wasn't.

What a .. a ...

::sigh:::

can't even think of the right word.

Be the change you wish to see in the world. --Gandhi

Yes you can!

It's just not fit for print. Ha!

Robin Hayes lied. Nobody died, but thousands of folks lost their jobs.



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Vote Democratic! The ass you save may be your own.

Well, yeah.

and there's not much I won't print.

But that's one of them.

Be the change you wish to see in the world. --Gandhi

This kind of thing was reported on not long ago

I think it was campgian money funneled to family members. I'm gonna look.

Okay here's what I found:

CREW did a whole study and calls it Family Affair and for North Carolina only mentions Etheridge and Watt. The Sunlight Foundation does something too, but I can't find it. In a google search I'm not seeing that any of the articles that come up mention Myrick.

SwampPolitics has a good summary of CREW's results. Here's an article that mentions the Sunlight Foundation. And here's a CBS report on Clyburn getting a big earmark some of which ended up in his daughter's bank account.

Good stuff, Betsy. Even if it IS legal. Just because it's legal, doesn't mean voters will like it.

 
News of the 10th district: See Pat Go Bye Bye,

Good links....I'll check them out

You're exactly right that voters won't like it. If she needed all those tv and radio ads it would be one thing. She doesn't and it's a waste of money. It shows she is NOT fiscally responsible.

Robin Hayes lied. Nobody died, but thousands of folks lost their jobs.



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Vote Democratic! The ass you save may be your own.

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