Campbell Law moves ( hard right?) into Raleigh

As y'all may or may not have heard, the Norman Adrian Wiggins School of Law, Campbell University, has decided to move to Raleigh. I don't really think it's a good idea for many reasons, but regardless, one item about the move jumped out at me when I read this morning's article in the FayOb:

The Associated Press reported late Wednesday that a letter from a real estate agent showed the law school intends to move into a downtown Raleigh building, owned by a company held by former state legislator Art Pope.

Would someone, please (with a minimum amount of "colorful metaphors" and sarcasm), give me the lowdown on Mr. Pope? I've seen the Puppetmaster chart and heard all the rest, but would someone give me the complete background on him and his "connections" that I may share with my law classmates? I'd appreciate it!!

Now, I'm no conspiracy theorist (I leave that to y'all...), but a tiny part of me is worried that my beloved institution may begin to turn into a Liberty U. or some other branch of the Federalist Society. I really hope I'm wrong...

(front-paged by Anglico)

Comments

The lowdown

The most neutral article on Art Pope is this one in the N&O.

Pope's dealings with higher education have been a mixed bag. Like many donors, he typically wants something in exchange for his largess. UNC has turned down his money because it came with too many strings, and NC State is still trying to get its fingers in the pot, though there is much internal angst.

Could it be that this is only a real estate transaction? Seems unlikely. Pope's daddy left him with more money than sense, and the Pope Foundation is required to make grants to sustain its tax-advantaged status. Which means he's always looking for ways to unload cash. And when he does, it is ALWAYS part of a broader plan to promote three things: (1) free-market fundamentalism, (2) extremist Republicans, and (3) the "classics" (i.e., the history of civilization as told by rich white men).

So it's hard to imagine the school moving without some enormous incentives - and those incentives are guaranteed to come with strings.

My guess? We'll soon be adding Campbell as the official law school of the Puppetshow.

Sorry.

It's almost uimaginable that Cambpell Law

would move.

A large number of their student base - at least undergrad, which is the feeder school for the law school, is military folks from Ft. Bragg.

Yes. I'm wearing tinfoil. So? It looks lovely in the sunshine.


Be the change you wish to see in the world. --Gandhi

Money, money, money

Silly. Anything is imaginable when you're the Puppetmaster.

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THANKS!

Thanks for the info. Nice to know the school is moving right into the HQs of Pope Political, Inc.

~sigh~

One of my colleagues told me that the ABA requires the school to own the building. Not sure if this is true. But, being not at all familiar with the building in question, will those other organizations move out now or ... ???

I should be all pomped and circumstanced by the time the move is done, but stilll...

Calm down

Pope is selling the building, according to the N&O, and this move for Campbell law school makes enormous sense.

Now that Charlotte has a law school, I think Raleigh may be the largest municipality in the country without one.
The concentration of state government, federal courts, appeals courts and law firms makes this town ideal for a law school.

Campbell has suffered for years from being seen as having limited opportunities for students to gain clinical experience and networking contacts.

I think this is a good move. If it is the establishment of another Regent, I'd be very very surprised.

"85% of Republicans are Democrats who don't know what's going on." -Robert Kennedy, Jr.

"Man is free at the moment he wishes to be." -Voltaire

Stranger things have happened.

It may very well be a good move for Campbell . . . and I can understand all the good reasons for doing it. But I'm curious about the details of the deal. Art Pope has a clear and consistent agenda to remake higher education in his own image.

Maybe this is just an arm's length transaction, but you'll forgive me for questioning the Puppetmaster's motives.

In the trenches...

First of all, thanks to everyone for the educational comments!

This is my $.02 on why the move shouldn't have been done (but it's done, so I'll get over it....)

- NAWSL has a proud tradition, small school, in rural area, that promotes studying, dedication, one-on-one w/ professors ... I don't see this continuing in Raleigh. You can't be a "small school" there
- Many of my comrades bemoan that their degree isn't worth anything. This ignores 1) that every lawyer in the state recognizes that, at least when it comes to litigation, Campbell attorneys has a leg up on others and 2) As a Fayetteville citizen, about 75% of the bar in the county is from Campbell. I'm not exactly worried about getting a job
- As much as I would like to think better, my classmates, especially the ones just coming from undergrad may not be as "focused" in the Raleigh environment. Our 90+% bar passage rate may become a thing of the past
- I really don't like the reasons that the dean has said for the move. It seems there is an agenda to "improve" NAWSL simply to get us a higher number in a magazine listing. To me, that's poor self-esteem and bad motivation. I don't believe in progress for the sake of progress. We need better students they say...and what's wrong with the ones we have now, I respond. How many students here apparently "don't belong"? Highest bar passage rate, great reputation, if it ain't broke, don't fix it!!
- This move to Raleigh will just result in a NEW law school. It won't be Campbell anymore. You might as well slap on the name Wake Forest for all it will matter
- If people aren't willing to drive an hour to Raleigh (in either direction), then I'm not sure there was anything worth while there in the first place
- All those kids looking for a job that pays a ka-billion dollars ... I hate to tell them but Charlotte is going to be better than Raleigh. Though why you would want one of those jobs (seriously) is beyond me ... won't see a courtroom for years and it's all about making rich people richer...I suppose someone has to do it, but still.
- I would stand on our record against Charlotte and Elon. People make their decision based on the entertainment of the Queen City and G-boro, fine. You want an excellent education in NC and national law, come to Campbell.

Pros for moving (I'm a Libra, it's my b-day today, I can go both ways ... I mean ...)
- Improve minority representation. Thank goodness we have a new admissions director who did a great job with the new first year class. There are NO African-Americans in the second or third year class (well, there is one in the 2L class, but she is a transfer). So perhaps an urban setting will allow us a great amount of diversity

...of course, Campbell has always had a decidingly right "tilt," but that's fine (I mean, we have Judge Ken Starr coming in Jan. to talk about ethics ... yes, yes, I know, don't get me started). I just don't want that tilt to turn into a collapse. I just see the move to Raleigh as creating an entirely new institution that will have new traditions. They won't be getting my alumni money...

If you slapped "Wake Forest" on it

you WOULD have a better law school.

;oP

"85% of Republicans are Democrats who don't know what's going on." -Robert Kennedy, Jr.

"Man is free at the moment he wishes to be." -Voltaire

No you wouldn't :)



Robin Hayes lied. Nobody died, but thousands of folks lost their jobs.



***************************
Vote Democratic! The ass you save may be your own.

Congrats! You have finish the Pope school of unconsitutional law

ut a tiny part of me is worried that my beloved institution may begin to turn into a Liberty U. or some other branch of the Federalist Society. I really hope I'm wrong...* capts

You got that right! 100% and a ton of federal lawyers to feed Team unconsitutional Republicans for the next 10 years.

Calm down*DrFrankLives

Pope is selling the building, according to the N&O, and this move for Campbell law school makes enormous sense.*DrFrankLives

Wonder if they would make it a dual-campus program.

Or,a feeder. In FL, they used to have a program in Jacksonville that taught ONLY the first year of "medical school", then the students were fed out to various FL Med schools as people dropped/failed out.

One of the pitfalls of childhood is that one doesn't have to understand something to feel it. - Carlos Ruiz Zafon

Jesus Swept ticked me off. Too short. I loved the characters and then POOF it was over.
-me

I would be very surprised if Campbell took a hard right turn.

Why? Campbell has a tradition of resisting such a move theologically, therefore I would be surprised to see the law school do so.

When the Southern Baptist Convention moved right nationally, and Southeastern Seminary (SEBTS) in Wake Forest did so locally, Campbell did not follow suit. In fact, some of the former SEBTS professors went to Buies Creek to continue teaching.

Those who enter seminary and those who enter law school are of a similar mold- I have heard that many times from many perspectives. I think that since Campbell has managed to remain theologically moderate (and under pressure to "conservatize"), they will continue to maintain their moderate legal position with the grace and dignity they are known for.

Additionally, while I know that for many of my fellow BlueNC readers and post-ers, North Carolina as a whole, and Raleigh in particular, may appear to be too much under the influence of Republicans (and conservative Republican at that), I work in and around state goverment and know firsthand it is predominantly under the control of moderate Democrats. Therefore, though moving to Raleigh may at first glace appear to be sleeping with the enemy for NAWSL, I doubt that will be true in the long run.

Besides, Art Pope is first and foremost a businessman, and he is successful as such. Many offices in Hillsborough Place have been vacant a long time. He may have seen this as an opportunity merely to unload a liability to an entity that will be able to better use the space.

However, I will crack this door a little to allow myself an escape: the divinity school is still located in Buies Creek.

Thanks for the background

I didn't know much of that history. Perhaps Campbell will continue to stay true to its academic mission and not be influenced by the former owner of the building it will occupy. (It really sounds silly when you put it like that, doesn't it?)


Be the change you wish to see in the world. --Gandhi

My brother went to law school at Campbell

and he's a gun totin' librul. :) Great law school btw.

Robin Hayes lied. Nobody died, but thousands of folks lost their jobs.



***************************
Vote Democratic! The ass you save may be your own.

And, more fundamentally.....

We either need an expanded law school or a new law school in North Carolina like a set of rubber crutches.

Got acquaintances whose daughter went to Campbell Law School. Did not sense that either she or the school was top tier. As I remember David Funderburk, far rightist colleague of Helms, East and Dist 2 Rep for while was, I think, a professor at Campbell College --- so as far as being to the right, one might think he would teach in a place compatible with his persuasion

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1101961104-134953,00.html.

As I remember, Liberty College is quite a religious place, home of Monica Goodling and 150 of their law school graduates sent to infilitrate the Justice Dpt and elsewhere by the Bushies. Sort of reminds me of the perhaps misguided view I have held of Campbell for nearly 40 years.

Just some thoughts.

wafranklin

 

First Thought On This -

Taking something valuable from a place that needs it -
and giving it to a place that doesn't need it.

Second thought:

the law school intends to move into a downtown Raleigh building, owned by a company held by former state legislator Art Pope.

Ew!

Top ten reasons to move the

Top ten reasons to move the Campbell Law School to Raleigh:

10. So they would not have to drink beer from a brown paper bag.

9. They will be going from the “outhouse” to “Thee Dollhouse.”

8. They will learn to drive on a four-lane road, and it’s even paved.

7. They might get to actually see the gov riding by. He lives in Raleigh!

6. It will be an opportunity to finally learn that a “subpoena” is not Italian food.

5. Riding in an elevator is more fun than the Harnett County Fair.

4. The NC State boys can learn them to distinguish between girls and farm animals.

3. Moving into Art’s building is just fine. After all, they already buy their Sunday suits from his dollar stores.

2. They know their bar pass rate will fall! It is high now because the students study hard or else they will have to spend more time in Harnett County.

And the number one reason to move to Raleigh:

1. It will be just like on the TV show, “The Jeffersons.” Hum along to the theme song………….

Well we’re movin on up to Rawlee,
To Art’s deluxe apartment in the sky,
Movin’ on up to Rawleigh,
We finally got a piece of the pie.

Fish don’t fry in the kitchen,
Beans don’t burn on the grill,
Took a whole lotta tryin’ just to get up that hill.
Now we’re up in the big leagues,
Getting’ our turn at bat.
As long as we live, it’s Art and me baby,
There ain’t nothing’ right with that.

Now we have nothing to fear,
Sit back and legally drink a beer,
Yes, now we have power,
Our rates will be $8.00 an hour,
I don’t want to sound like I’m braggin’,
Away from them preachers we’ll start shaggin’,
Water is short so not too many showers,
But damn, look at all the cell phone towers,
In Rawleigh of fame and fortune I will seek,
It’s a far cry from good ole’ Buies Creek.

Ha!

Very funny.

(Love your screen name)


"If boiling people alive best served the interests of the American people, then it would neither be moral or immoral." Max Borders, Civitas

Bwahaha!

Made my morning (afternoon? what time is it?)


Be the change you wish to see in the world. --Gandhi